Blog-Frog's blog

By Blog-Frog, 6 years ago, In English

Recently a question came to my mind, In this many years of programming and practicing to participate in IOI, I’ve seen many guys which become red from green including my self. the strange thing was that many smart and genius people failed and. people with lower IQ grow much than them. that was very strange to me and I’m asking you for your suggestions! the only thing here that make programmers more powerful. not IQ, not at all!

By the way I think it depends style of thinking, BFS and DFS! guys who using BFS try to brainstorm many possible algorithms and Ideas and solve the problem. while DFS thinking people, Choose an algorithm, make it deeper, more complicated and finally solve problem!

Guys! please tell me is this true? or not :)

 
 
 
 
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6 years ago, # |
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"To iterate is human; to recurse divine." ― L. Peter Deutsch

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6 years ago, # |
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The best is A*, or best first search thinking people. If you have enough experience, you're more likely to think in the right direction immediately or quickly enough.

I don't really get why humans try to pack such a wide concept as intelligence into an unsigned char. And sure, it does say something, but I don't think it correlates well with any particular skill, and that includes skill in competitive programming. Having high IQ doesn't make you a good competitive programmer, being a good competitive programmer makes you a good competitive programmer (which is true in a funny way — the faster you can solve problems, the more you can solve them and the more you learn, so coding is a sort of self-improving ability).

What matters much more is experience, which is gained by practicing a lot — and luck.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    I'm totally disagree :)
    Humans pack intelligence into unsigned char because there is no one with negative IQ ^_^
    seriously I know a lot of people using bogo sort thinking style, and they never grow.
    look at tourist or petr, surely they aren't normal people. haven't you ever noticed at tourist's brain? It's shape is so unique (like C) and make his mathematics skills very good

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      Ok, so your argument for "disagreeing" is jokes and a logical fallacy? Because I never said anything about bogosort thinking style (which should be either "do something random until it works")...

      So much for disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

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        6 years ago, # ^ |
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        Yes, Jokes make everything much more fun. I think in this case It wasn't funny but I'm disagree with this part Having high IQ doesn't make you a good competitive programmer
        and my proof was tourist.

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          6 years ago, # ^ |
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          Why do you think tourist is a competitive programmer because of high IQ?

          Jokes are okay if it isn't "serious question -> serious reply -> absolutely not serious re-reply", because it makes it sound like you're just asking the question to troll the replies.

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            6 years ago, # ^ |
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            Because geniuses are more successful in competetive programming than any other field.

            Did you expect tourist to become a biologist? :D

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              6 years ago, # ^ |
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              Then, what makes you think

              Because geniuses are more successful in competetive programming than any other field.

              As far as I'm concerned, provide research that shows that it's true (relative to absolute success/popularity of the field, since it's useless otherwise) or stop trolling.

              Also, I don't see what you have against biology — it's also interesting :D

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                The fact that It's so funny for me, person who make this comments :D
                Xellos is a kind of tourist himself :P (he has a medal in every olympiad except biology(!) )

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Then you can accept when I tell you that my results are a result of being interested in this stuff and a lot of effort, not a number that a school psychologist said a long time ago :D

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  This is so cool about you that you answer every comment even if it's a shit :)

                  what was the number
                  that a school psychologist said a long time ago!? :D

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  I don't know, and to be honest, I don't care. It's more of a figure of speech.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  You're prediction was wrong. 7495376

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                What Blog-Frog actually tries to say that competetive programming is more g-loaded than biology.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  And once again, sauce plz.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  you said: Judge based on what you see, not based on a number. That's better. so, I just see it!

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  So, how many competitive programmers and biologists do you know well? If it isn't in the order of thousands at least (which I doubt), then what you see is statistically irrelevant.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Amazing! Anything that Xellos sees is true, anything that alliumnskbis sees is statistically irrelevant. Xellos himself believes his red rating is due to training only. If so, this also implies that your thoughts on IQ topic, which you did not study, are of same weight as opinions of gray and green coders.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Anything that Xellos sees is true, anything that alliumnskbis sees is statistically irrelevant.

                  Butthurt much?

                  I won't get into personal fights so I won't reply anymore, but the difference is that I'm making claims founded on experience of me and other good coders (IQ is much less relevant than the amount of training), while yours are not (comparing biologists and competitive programmers, how would you know without getting to know both biologists and competitive programmers well enough) and contradict common sense (or better yet, degrade one group, which isn't the first time you've done it).

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  From your experience only follows that training matters, whereas you don't have any IQ measurements.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  I did not compare biologists to programmers, I was simply commenting on what BlogFrog said. It's you who trying to degrade me.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  The only group I intentionally want to degrade is faggots who can't accept the inconvenient truth.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  "so I won't reply anymore" — those words from Xellos are unbelievable :O!

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Let me have my butthurt? Xellos earns another trolling achievement.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    There are lots of peer-reviewed literature about correlations of IQ and various life outcomes, so you can't just waive it. Most of people with IQ of 125 have, or will have completed higher education, but very few people with IQ of 75 have. There are correlations of IQ with divorce rates, crime, religiosity, political views, and even taste for classical music.

    If you socialize mainly in circle of self-selected high intelligence individuals, effects of IQ are not easily observable, because everyone of your friends has IQ from moderate high to very high.

    BTW, having high IQ is a luck itself.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      why so few faggots have minused my comment above?

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6 years ago, # |
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Blog-Frog, why didn't you write this blog with your main account?

About IQ, I think you can have good initial abilities, if your IQ > ~90. IQ isnt an objective way to define, how clever you are. It mirrors your ability to solve simple problems.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    Imagine what happen if tourist write this post! it's totally ununderstandable :)

    I think average IQ for a competitive programmer is about ~120. and I think you are write there is huge difference between two people with IQ 90 and 120. while 120 and 150 not.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      I don't see why it would be ununderstandable. The only thing I don't get is why you're trying to measure intelligence as some sort of scalar value. These genius people are probably good at things that don't translate well to programming contests, didn't train as much as you, or likely both.

      And by hiding you get people like me who are more interested in playing detective than paying attention to what the discussion is :D

      In fact, while doing that I was a little surprised to confirm there were a lot of people who got red from green, but of course it's the natural direction (as when you don't know anything you're obviously going to be at a huge disadvantage). People who were born blue/purple likely did 230 problems in a month before competing because they were afraid to get crushed otherwise (guilty).

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        6 years ago, # ^ |
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        [headbang]

        there are a lot of examples which prove you are wrong. I know someone who is practicing since 3 years ago, but his rating is always green-blue :D
        sure I didn't mean musical intelligence from IQ. researches show that IQ test's results is almost as same as mathematical abilities. when your result is 85 in iqtest.dk it means you are really dumb and poor in math!

        by the way I also know someone who when he was 13. he was pretty gray in CF, and know he is 14 and he is international master :D, I'm pretty sure that he hasn't solve more than 500 problems in his life, and he was VERY SMART!

        Don’t broke my heart! just say you are right… and everything nice :D

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          6 years ago, # ^ |
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          Can you provide nicknames of some users who are practicing for 3 years and still can't get out of div2?

          Because i don't know about any such examples:) If practicing does not mean "doing 1-2 CF rounds every month", of course.

          Therefore when somebody asks me what he should do to become better, i usually say "keep practicing and you'll improve with time" instead of "look at these guys (list of nicknames here), if you are not talented — practice will not help you" :) And with this list of nicknames i'll save their time)

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            6 years ago, # ^ |
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            Can you provide nicknames of some users with red rating and IQs below 100?

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              6 years ago, # ^ |
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              Uhm, the burden of proof thing. The one who stated

              I know someone who is practicing since 3 years ago, but his rating is always green-blue :D

              should provide the proof, replying with a similar question is just escaping.

              But if you're really asking, then I can claim that I'm one such example — deny it.

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                I was busy! for example Xerxes :D

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  I went through Xerxes submissions and checked page by page. Considering his rating history and the fact that the ids of the problems he solved are mostly in decreasing order it seems to me that this guy hardly practiced, at least at Codeforces, he just participated in contests. Just participating in contests doesn't get you very far.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Are you serious?)

                  Or he is practicing at some other Online Judge, or his team has 3-4 trainings every week, or... Then i'll be glad to see his profiles on other sites, or any other such data.

                  Looking only at his submissions at CF — he is not doing any trainings, he only participate in CF rounds. He don't even do upsolving — submissions are during contests only. Maybe he only read editorials, don't write code, i have no idea:) But i don't see any proofs of this guy working on his level improvement, based on stats that i have — his submissions list.

                  I am sure that if i'll play chess with my dad once every week — it will not make me chess grandmaster even in 10 years, but not because i am not talented:)

                  This is not good idea to compare activity by number of submissions — it says nothing about editorials/books, problems level, other contests. But just to give you something to think about, i'll take this random stat... I took timespan of ~1.5 pages of his submissions, july 2013 — august 2014. 13 months. Then I did same thing with my submissions. 2014-08-15 16:00 — 2014-08-18 04:00. 60 hours. Feel the difference?

                  Ok, my fault, thanks to Xellos — this guy actually did submissions outside contests. Anyway, main idea of my message remains unchanged:)

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Just a note: did you check the "Show unofficial" box? Because if you do, it shows you that he is upsolving — but not really much. (In fact, he has less solved problems per 5 years than me per 2.)

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Do you take into account that for equivalent time spent, he will solve less problems than you do?

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                Proof is required for claims that contradict established theories. If I say that someone of CF users if a human (rather than ape), this does not require proofs. Close relationship between IQ and academic achievements is established fact, so this should work for CF too and it's you who has to prove absence of correlation. Blog-frog came with a claim that he knows coders who train and have low ratings, without evidence to back up the claim. How does that prevent me from asking you about your thesis? Your exchange of opinions with Blog-Frog therefore is a draw

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  If you say that someone of CF users is human then I'll not ask for a proof because I know I am a human, but if you say all CF users are humans I wouldn't say proof is not needed.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Your statement has nothing to do with topic being discussed.

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              6 years ago, # ^ |
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              If I'll try some IQ test and get score below 100 — you will either say that test was bad, or i did not tried hard enough, or any other stuff like that. Or just claim that one person is a strange deviation, and all other red coders must have higher IQ. Or that I should not be red. Therefore it is pointless even to try — looks like plain wasting of time, sorry:)

              Anyway, for me IQ is just a number expressing ability of IQ tests solving:)

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                If you are seriously think deliberately performing bad in IQ test proves something -- it's useless to argue with you.

                For me, you're just an obscurantist.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  Well, it's just what LeBron told about. If somebody red performing good in IQ — it's just another proof that all red guys has high IQ. If he doesn't — well, he did it deliberately. Well, I know what to do. Popper's criterion! I Choose You!

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  You have very naive understanding of Popper's criteria. E.g. if is someone measures energy in some experiment and finds that law of conservation of energy is not satisfied, hypotheses should be tried in that order: 1. something with hardware is incorrect 2. there are some hidden energy leaks 3. the law of conservation is indeed wrong

                  in our case, is LeBron comes with IQ=90 measurement, first hypothesis tried 1. he is lying 2. he deliberately did it moreover, some coders took part on same iq test, so we'll see...

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  see Thomas_94's comment below.

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  How will the results of other coder help you in understanding if LeBron has lied?

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                  6 years ago, # ^ |
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                  The result won't "help" me, they might help the others who are watching the discussion. If there were stronger correlation between honesty and CF ratings than there is between IQ and rating, I'd consider possibility that LeBron says truth. But no such correlation between honesty and rating, AFAIK, exists.

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                7 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                you are love tanya

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                  7 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  It's impolite to reply comments which were written 6 years ago

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                  7 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  what about to reply comments which were written 6 hours ago mr. eva

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                  7 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  umm, it's Miss Eva

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      What would happen if tourist wrote that post? I guess most would simply believe him.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    IQ has its flaws, but nobody has invented anything better.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      Judge based on what you see, not based on a number. That's better.

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        6 years ago, # ^ |
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        Judge based on what you see? in this way many parameters like height and face effects :/ there is a big aversion with dwarfs and ugly people, so judging based on what you see isn't good I think.

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          6 years ago, # ^ |
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          Trololo?

          Actually, yes, I suppose everyone would usually judge how tall someone is mostly based on what you see, not based on a specially designed test that only "qualified professionals" are supposed to administer.

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            6 years ago, # ^ |
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            experience proved you are wrong. Imagine 2 people with same IQ. one of them is a tall and very handsome with deep voice, other one is a dwarf and ugly. I bet you think first one is much smarter. don't you?

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              6 years ago, # ^ |
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              No, why?

              You humans are weird, connecting unrelated things.

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                6 years ago, # ^ |
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                You humans are weird, connecting unrelated things.

                Are you alien?

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The best definition of IQ I know is: "IQ is number expressing persons ability of solving IQ tests."

Rating should be number expressing persons ability of solving tasks in programming contests.

Solving IQ tests and solving programming contests are two completely different things (although they're not totally unrelated), so the correlation between IQ and rating is not very big as well.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    If being so picky, then rating is a number expressing person's performance in programming contest in a specific environment, because their computer, internet connection, timezone, even weather matter too.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      lol... haters gonna hate. there were messages from coders from some countries than power failures affected their performance in contests...

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Off-topic: How can I test my IQ? Is there any reliable IQ checker that you may suggest? :/

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6 years ago, # |
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I'm just curious. Did you write this because you scored low on an online IQ test? For what I've read those aren't completely accurate and are not as optimized as tests with professional assistance. And no, I don't think IQ has anything to do with it. How many people told you their IQ so you could say that many people with high IQ do not perform as good as those with low IQ?

The best, if not the only way to see how good is a competitive programmer is to look at their rating. And I think everyone with enough practice and dedication can become a genius in their area. People never stop learning. Every year you are a little/lot wiser than the year before. And as long as you have a goal all you have to do is move forward towards it.

And creating an account just to write this seems fishy... But well, you have the right for privacy!!!

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    Me and all of those I said took an IQ test in a programming training camp, results made me surprised and I wrote this post :)

    I had to create a new account for this post! such a post brings you huge dislike and h8 and I just want to avoid it!!!
    :)

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      can you provide the statistics from this test? I don't see the point in bringing this subject up if you don't present the facts that motivated you

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      How many people? And what type of IQ test did you guys take?

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      what was your surprise?

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It seems like IQ Test
I am closer to be a genius than get div 1 in Codeforces.

**Update:** This is another IQ test test.

Does IQ test really work?

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6 years ago, # |
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I officially challenge Xellos! :)
Plz take an IQ test in iqtest.dk , If you get a risault was higher than 135 I'm right and you are wrong. otherwise I'm right and you wasn't in a good mood during IQtest (You are right . |-( .)

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    This one is harder. I got 126.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    He won't accept your challenge. He thinks it's we who must disprove his bat$$%t crazy ramblings.

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6 years ago, # |
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I'll ask you quite a different question: what if the ability to solve algorithmic tasks is what makes you do well at solving IQ tests?

An example: I took a test with Raven's matrices (the ones in which you have 8 images and you have to fit the ninth image). Algorithmic experience helped me realize that for instance [ROT13, spoiler alert!] dhvgr n srj zngevprf hgvyvmr va inevbhf jnlf gur kbe bcrengvba; sbe rknzcyr, rnpu ebj naq pbyhza kbef gb rzcgl frg, znlor nsgre fbzr ebgngvbaf rgp. I think these ones would be considerably harder without this experience...

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    Usually there are more than one explanation for answers, a non-programmer might express the same in different words.

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6 years ago, # |
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6 years ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

IQ Test
IQ Test

This is not an IQ test I met before. Results of this test probably depend only on the speed. It has only 20 questions and all of them are very easy (though I failed one of them because I didn't know the meaning of one English word, which was more correct answer than mine). Some years ago I used to pass the test with 40 questions, it was in Russian, I could answer only 25-30 of them, it said me 135 or something about that.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +9 Vote: I do not like it

    IQ Test
    IQ Test

    Noob!

    I'm sure you've failed 1-1-2-3-5-8-13 question.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    I think this is a challenging IQ Test iqtest.dk with 40 questions like you said.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      Done! It's the different test again — it has 39 questions and only abstract pictures.

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        6 years ago, # ^ |
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        Well, I think it is the most challenging online IQ Test I did at this time. BTW, you are a very intelligent people too.

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6 years ago, # |
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I am not speak English.

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6 years ago, # |
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Codeforces current | Codeforces max | Free-IQTest

  • 1332 | 1407 | 139
  • 1451 | 1664 | 137
  • 1680 | 1758 | 144
  • 1712 | 1766 | 138
  • 1717 | 1760 | 160+
  • 1783 | 1783 | 143
  • 1959 | 2094 | 150
  • 2255 | 2255 | 154

Any correlation? :p

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 4   Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

    These (current,free-iqtest) pairs produce corellation Coeficient: r = 0.623 (UPD: it's 0.624 after HIdenoriS's result is added) But, of course, there is no corellation, because some f@#$%%s with red rating and no honour have said there is no.

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6 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -9 Vote: I do not like it

How's the weather N00bs? :D
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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6 years ago, # |
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OMG 72 + 1 comments! I didn't expect this much attention :D

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6 years ago, # |
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IQ Test
IQ Test

I don't think you can measure one's intelligence only with this, though.

For example, rearranging orders of characters is a lot easier for those who speak English.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    Free IQtest is a shit! Go to http://iqtest.dk...

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      Of course, the free IQTest is a shit. I guess, for most ppl here (UPD: me included), you have to subtract 5-15 pts from it to get real IQ score. But the correlation is very real anyway.

      Free IQ Test
      Free IQ Test

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        6 years ago, # ^ |
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        free IQTest doesn't look like what we will call that a IQ test (which always consists of puzzles with numbers and figures)

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          6 years ago, # ^ |
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          what exactly do you disagree with? Do you think proper IQ test would show there is no correlation?

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6 years ago, # |
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Not so good at all :(

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6 years ago, # |
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I did it, here is the result.

I did my best, it is not a joke:) Of course, you are free to not trust it at all, and to not include it in any correlation calculations:) And I don't want to use it to prove anything — it is pointless, as i said before.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    I really don't believe you. This test is full of abstract figures which you have to arrange in order to gain maximum harmony. I think this skill has a lot of influence on your results at programming contests. Also I think the interest in puzzle games or quests in unusual worlds (I mean something like Antichamber, or maybe you remember Ripatti's game, or just Portal) has the same correlation.

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      6 years ago, # ^ |
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      Well, for me starting from ~10th question this test looked like "if in bottom left we have triangle, and top right has rectangle with 2 crossed lines — should bottom right be square inside circle or circle inside square?" And i have no idea what is harmony beside it all:) I tried some stuff like "it should have same number of lines", "we should place most common/uncommon figure here" and so on, but it failed.

      For me it is far from programming contests, where you usually have to implement same algorithm for 5th, 10th,...100th time.

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    6 years ago, # ^ |
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    You are the man!

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    2 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Online tests are not reliable..try taking Mensa's paper based IQ test ..or did you ever take GRE/SAT?

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    2 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    These online tests are not accurate...Best is Mensa's paper based test...SAT?GRE scores are also reliable...Will you be scoring low in a GRE for example ? Math part you will obviously score full/almost full...and your english skills also seem quite good...So your IQ is easily quite high...i.e.>135/140 for sure

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6 years ago, # |
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  1. In my opinion performing well on IQ tests is highly correlated to logical thinking and logical thinking is highly correlated to having a better rating here, so performing well on IQ tests is indeed correlated with getting a higher rating. Of course there is not a 100% correct rule, but I don't know why that many of you are simply discarding those results completely. They indeed test thinking, but not exactly the same as in contests, but it all goes to one big bag called "Logical thinking and reasoning" and solving IQ tests, solving algorithmical contests, solving mathematical contests, reasoning in real life, performing well on your university/school — it's all somehow connected, you can't deny that.

  2. Please, do NOT rely on IQ tests found on Internet, they are highly unreliable ans so are arguments based on them. In my opinion, the only reliable IQ tests are those provided by Mensa