kostka's blog

By kostka, 3 months ago, In English

IOI has issued a statement: https://ioinformatics.org/news/ioi-response-to-invasion-of-ukraine/40

In short:

  • the IC strongly condemns the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation
  • the Russian delegation will not be invited to IOI 2022 (but they can participate online under the IOI flag)
  • there is still an ongoing discussion regarding the Belarusian delegation

I am curious about what the community thinks of this decision and its repercussions.

Update, 26 April 2022: The delegation from Belarus will be subject to the same restrictions as described above for Russia.

 
 
 
 
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3 months ago, # |
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I think it's sad.

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3 months ago, # |
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I think it is a totally fair decision.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    bruhh, really? cuz those poor high school kids have nothing to do with war and politics !

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Putin: tries to invade Ukraine. IOI: We'll help Ukraine by restricting Russian teenagers to participate in IOI

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That'll show Putin!

Spoiler
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3 months ago, # |
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The kids should be allowed to write code and solve some problems. They are just kids. However they can’t do it under a Russian flag, it would inappropriate. Therefore I think the IC is achieving both and is making a fair decision.

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3 months ago, # |
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I really hoped the russians wont participate at all because that gave me a chance to get gold this time :(

Next time, next time

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3 months ago, # |
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What the heck did Russian students do? When the US invaded Iraq, did IOI dare ban US?

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    It's weird how the fact that students that do not participate under their flag is what upsets you, rather than the fact that most Russian residents do not have access to their savings made in foreign banks, leaving them almost bankrupt.

    In any case, I do not recall that the US's main target in Iraq was to conquer it and declare it US soil, and killing effectively every civilian living in any accessible city to attack.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      In any case, I do not recall that the US's main target in Iraq was to conquer it and declare it US soil.

      I do not recall that Russia's main target in Ukrainian is to conquer it and declare it its soil. What was the source of your information?

      ... and killing effectively every civilian living in any accessible city to attack.

      In one month in Iraq 3,200–4,300 civilians and 7,600–11,000 Iraq solders were killed according to the Project on Defense Alternatives study. In Ukrainian in two weeks 564 civilians were killed according to the UN... Mb just open Wikipedia?

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
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        I am from Ukraine, I was born here and my ancestors lived here. Maybe someone will find this text funny, maybe someone will be outraged, maybe someone will want to distort my words and manipulate them. Excuse me, please, but any war and any death is awful. Your profile says that you are from Russia, so I will think so. Sorry for choosing your comment to write this text. First of all, I appeal to all Russians. You are probably relatively safe now, but my house is in a battle zone. My school, my lyceum was destroyed by an air strike, completely destroyed. Many houses in my city where civilians lived were bombed. Fortunately, only the windows were broken in one of the hospitals, people are alive. Planes are flying over my head. Studying is completely stopped throughout my region for an indefinite period. A very large number of people left my city. And there are cities that have suffered much more. I understand that you live in a huge country that has been like this for the whole time of its existence. Of course, our views on the history of our countries are different, but I believe that Russia is a country with a tendency to imperial behavior. You will probably agree with me here. And the real reason for Russia's attack on Ukraine is not important (Russia really started first, because on the morning of the first day of this war, I watched your president's speech live, in which he said that Russia was launching a military operation in Ukraine. I watched the original live without translation). An attack by one country on another is a manifestation of aggression and imperialism, either in a desire to destroy a competitor, or in a desire to conquer land and then use it for their own purposes, or in a desire to change its geopolitical position, or whatever the reason. But we, Ukrainians, as ordinary people, want to live and live independently. We have always fought for our independence, for our right to exist. And this is the conflict of interest, the real essence of this problem. The problem needs to be solved. Everyone, who reads this text, everyone who is registered on this site, of course, are intellectuals, those who will build the future. I see the future as a world of intellect, as a world of science. I am really the one who is crazy about dreaming of solving environmental problems, developing technology and deepening scientific understanding of the world. Intelligence gave birth to science, it also gave birth to empathy, made human from animal. I understand the peace as the highest manifestation of intelligence. You probably understand what I'm talking about. Absolute peace and independence is the only way for nations to coexist. This also applies to current events. Even if the Russian government manages to do what it wants, there will be uprisings, rallies and revolutions, if there are those who lived in Ukraine. Otherwise, it is a real genocide. And this is not a intimidation. So it was, it is and it will be correct. Ukrainians always want to have freedom. And this is not a manifestation of Nazism. This is the law, because it has happened more than once. Absurd situation ... And the whole world cannot be silent, because people's worldview is changing en masse. And the reason for this discussion, the IOI decision, is just one manifestation of the worldwide reaction. Yes, it is radical and very sharp. Children are not guilty of anything and do not deserve such treatment. I personally apologize to them if they find this text offensive. In general, it is obvious to me that an information war is being waged, and I, unfortunately, also became a participant in it. I have many relatives who live in Russia, but have a positive attitude to the war, because they have an absurd vision of real events in my homeland. I am a witness to these events, and I understand that they are victims of the information war. I know that a large number of videos and channels on social networks have been deleted or blocked by the Russian secret services. In particular, those who talk about the reality. And how to tell the truth? The IOI statement, I think, is a hint, albeit in a very sharp form. I do not call for aggression. All I want is to make people know the truth, to seek it. If you are not satisfied with reality — change it, do not be slaves! If this text is a violation of the rules of the site — your right, delete it, but know — then you are complicit in the murders of Ukrainians, who fighting for the right to choose their own future, and Russians, who do not know reason, why they are killing. And no matter how many people die, deaths must be stopped. Counting the dead is not a manifestation of humanity, a manifestation of humanity — do everything to stop it! May there be peace and power of the people! May the truth be and science prosper! Let the war stop and Russian forces leave the territory of Ukraine forever! Understand that this attitude towards you, not because of your culture, not because of your economic and geographical location, but because of the behavior of your government, because almost the whole world perceives the political elite as a manifestation of the will of the people who elected it.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    I strongly codemn their government as well , but after all the government never equals to the people , I don't think it's a sensible choice to ban the Russian students too.

    By the way , this kind of behavior will only create more pro-government Russians.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Does your hate for US or say what US did to Iraq makes what Putin is doing right or does it mean we should allow him to continue his mischievous deeds?

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      That doesn't justify Putin's actions in any way, it only demonstrates how hypocritical and unethical these organisations really are, that in fact they don't care about people at all.

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
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        Anyway, all international organizations in 2003 are a way different than now, and it's a way different situation than now.

        It's a good step, and if that step is used by all of the other participants, that makes (I hope not) the same terrible things — it would be perfect.

        I agree that there can be a part of the "popularity" of hating everything associated with Russian symbols, the Russian government, etc, but in my opinion, IOI made a good decision because the Russian Flag right now is associated with nothing but pain and deaths.

        You just say that organizations don't change within 20 years, and need to make the same decisions just to not show "duplicity" for someone, but all organizations are changing all the time, and decisions are changing too.

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          3 months ago, # ^ |
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          Iraq is just the most absurd and well known example, the conflict of 2022 is obviously not the first one since 2003, not even the first one in Ukraine... For example who killed ~2500 civilians in Donbass 2014-2016, and how did the European/western community reacted?

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            3 months ago, # ^ |
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            I do not recall who killed 2500 civilians in Donbass 2014-2016. What was the source of your information?

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              3 months ago, # ^ |
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              Wayback machine 2016 Wikipedia

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                3 months ago, # ^ |
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                Are you aware that everyone can edit and vandalize Wikipedia? Your source is the most ridiculous one I've ever heard.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
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                  Ahahaha, are you serious, or it's some kind of meta-irony?

                  I am not sure if I should answer you comment, or this is some kind of trolling, but just in case:

                  1. You can check Wikipedia's source.
                  2. You can check history of edits (somehow no one "fixed" this "error" in 6 years, and the updated number has only increased since 2016).
                  3. You can check other sources too, and you will find similar number.
                  4. What is the perfect source of information? Mass media sponsored by interested party? (Answer: there is no perfect source, especially during the war...)
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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
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                  (it seems like this is going to be a significant discovery for you: Wikipedia doesn't calculate anything on its own, you can click on number in [] and see Wikipedia's source, in this case it's "report on the human rights situation in Ukraine" by "Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights")

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                3 months ago, # ^ |
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                Could you show the direct link to the Wikipedia article you mentioned? And the section number would be very appreciated. I couldn't seem to find it but this would be very shocking if it's true.

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              3 months ago, # ^ |
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              It's exactly what I was talking about, "no one" even remembers what happened...

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            3 months ago, # ^ |
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            European/Western community imposed sanctions on Russia for escalating war in Donbass in 2014 and later. Don't you know?

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    US controlled it.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Please don't compare Iraq to Ukraine. Are you saying Saddam Hussein and Zelensky are the same? They both equally deserve to be overthrown?

    Many Iraqi's were relieved to get rid of Saddam (Edit: and his sons). They liked US troops initially but did not like after few years. The post-war Iraq became so messy because of deep rooted division between Sunni's and Shia's in that country. You need to read how oppressive Saddam was towards Shia's.

    Yes, the students did not do anything. I assume that's why they are allowed to participate under different flag. Isolating Russia every way possible makes sense as it puts more pressure on Putin and his regime.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      Yes, the students did not do anything. I assume that's why they are allowed to participate under different flag. Isolating Russia every way possible makes sense as it puts more pressure on Putin and his regime.

      Except it does not. With IOI in particular? He most likely doesn't even know what that means. Restricting Russia's participation would only be seen as a casus for withdrawing Russia's team as a sort of 'counter-sanctions'.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Why ban US? US deligation consists mostly of chinese students, LOL))

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    In my opinion there is one difference in these two cases (Iraq and Ukraine). And maybe this difference is the reason why we see such different reaction on these two events in the world.

    This difference is the discussion in UN. So you can google a resolution of UN about Iraq. So there was some report about Iraq (but I know that it wasn't confirmed after invasion as far as I heard).

    While Russia invaded the Ukraine without discussion in UN. They just declared fascism and the genocide of russians without any proofs and started the war.

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3 months ago, # |
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Does not make sense. They "must" be invited. The opportunity of the students should not be taken away. Enforcing such restrictions is useless and will not stop the war. I find this senseless.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    It says they won't be invited, but can participate under whatever conditions. All I'm saying is that they shouldn't be any discrimination faced by students because of what someone else has done.

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Can anyone please explain what's the point in these sanctions? What do you expect the four teenage team members do, found a world government? I can only see this as virtue signaling. It's not even a reasonable symbolic refusal, IOI is not nearly as well-known as the Olympic games.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Exactly! They just want to show that they are doing something. (Though what they are doing is totally senseless, to me atleast)

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Maybe it to not send sponsors away. Just my opinion.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    They are totally brainwashed, or pressed by government/agenda, or just showed what they are really thinking about russians. Choose which option do you want.

    Anyway, conflict will end, but understanding who are them wouldn't.

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Deserved.

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3 months ago, # |
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very sad :(

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3 months ago, # |
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Blaming the Russian government was fine but by banning the Russian flag, insulting Russians is not fair IMO. This is sad and annoying.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    I haven't seen contestants being insulted in any way.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      Yeah, "we're banning your nation but don't get offended" xD

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
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        They are banning their gorvernment, not nation. If they weren't allowed to participate at all, then it would have been a nation ban.

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          3 months ago, # ^ |
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          Why do you think winning medals under Russian flag has anything to do with government? Do you really think this weird sanction is constructive at all?

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            3 months ago, # ^ |
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            Because russian flag represents the current goverment and it's decisions? It doesn't have to be constructive here, it just symbolic and it's totally okay. These people can still participate. If they do not identify themselves with these decisions about invasion they should have no problem with that, a if they have.. I would not want to participate next to somebody who justify the tragedy which happens in Ukraine. I would say more, this sanction is not meant to be constructive since the beginining, as many people already have pointed out, normal citizens have nothing to do with that and the minimum you can do if you don't want to risk going to jail for protesting on the street against that, is just not identify with that on the international stage because by doing that (removing flag), you show and teach people that generalizing whole nation is bad.

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3 months ago, # |
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5 hour ago I joked exactly about it

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3 months ago, # |
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I'm totally against all kinds of war, but punishing 4 talented programmers by dissallowing them to visit one of the best competitions in the world is quite unfair. They're not related to Russian government (probably).

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Why are people downvoting this blog?

It's not like the OP banned them; they are just communicating the news.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    Agreed, at least this should be visible in Recent actions...

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    Because de-facto OP supports this decision, and this is very nazi from his side? My whole disrespect him for this, this is why I downvote.

    stfu furry

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“ IOI is a diverse community that provides a unique opportunity for students to meet people with different nationalities, cultures, ethnicities, religions, disabilities, gender identities, and sexual orientations. The IOI community embraces diversity and promotes mutual respect and understanding.

IOI is committed to accepting all participants for who they are, and providing an environment where everyone with a passion for informatics is comfortable and included.”

IOI is violating their code of conduct. I feel like it goes against the message it aimed to deliver to talented students. Well done IC

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This comment is no longer relevant as the post has gained upvotes. Happily, there are more rational people than idiots in this community. although I am tremendously curios to know why I got downvoted

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3 months ago, # |
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This is so stupid, they aren't responsible for the Russian government

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MAKE OLYMPIC SPIRITS GREAT AGAIN!! F**K THE DISTINGUISHING WORLD.

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Its sad tho :/

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I am really enjoying this west world sanctions :). Go on, guys, more and more people are seeing what is going on here, and who is on the right side. https://www.tipranks.com/news/meta-allows-hate-speech-against-russians-invading-ukraine-report/

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    I also have some roots in Iżewsk, and so ashamed of this guy...

    Igor Irtenyev, russian poet, embodied: "they fuck us, and we get stronger. Without noticing, that while we got fucked, best years go by.".

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This is ridiculous, The Syrian delegation which is backed and supported publicly by Bashar Al-Assad government has never been questioned or anything.

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Very sad to see that, the world(the western world) doesn't talk when the USA does more cruel wars. At least please let our Russian brothers participate as a Russian.

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As for me, competitive programming community is the most peacefull place. Can you remember some significant conflicts happened between competetive programmers? And some political decisions in this place sounds really strange.

On tne other hand, IOI decision could be worse. And it's totally fair that they gave Russians a way to participate.

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Yes please. Don't agree to stop further expansion of NATO, have missile sites built along the Russian border, threaten with bigger consequences and then play the victim card the house of cards comes crashing down. And yes, don't forget to make lives of ordinary Russians difficult cuz you are after all too weak to confront the one in power. As if Russia was left with any other option.

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I don't think it's fair.

It may ruin some Russian students' whole life,because they would enter better university though their behavior in IOI

Oh,then I may misunderstand this...

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In addition to this decision, the IOI will be exploring ways in which we can help Ukraine rebuild its IOI programme.

Yes, this is the only thing the IC should do. Maybe starting with something simple like sponsoring the Ukraine team to participate in IOI 2022. I might sound too naive here but supporting the victims is way way better than penalizing teenagers, who "cannot be held responsible for the effects of this war".

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Ok, but it isn't the reason won't try to enter the top 6 in all-Rissian olympiad :)

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I hope IOI to make it a permanent institution so that everyone can “participate as individuals under the IOI flag, and not under any national name, flag or symbols.” as they want.

They may make an individual region to select a delegation of about 114 participants for those without nation-state symbols.

Besides, I can only wish for peace and decreasing its price, for not only everyone living on the land of eastern Europe.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    As further explanation, "permanent institution" is a suggestion for IOI, rather than a metaphor for international ("internationale" neither, certainly). The institution is a crisis nowadays.

    And the price of peace is emphasized here rather than the price toward peace.

    Anyhow, we shall work on OI common goods (different from public goods) at least. Study together from OI on.

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rip. students that have no relation is now also affected :(

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Russian students got nothing to do with the Russian Government. This is kinda sad.

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The American flag represents freedom and bravery. It does not represent the US politicians or the invasion of Iraq.

The Russian flag represents generosity and honesty , it doesn't represent Putin or the invasion of Ukraine.

For what reason you ban the Russian flag from the IOI ? Where is the so called "Sports are beyond national boundaries." ? Every country has its dirts, in this sense , you may even remove every flag from the competition.

If the IC wants to help the Ukrainian refugees , it would be a great move. But please do not turn IOI into a political event. The world is not supposed to be like that.

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#include <hypocrisy.h>

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So ridiculous. They get an excuse and crazy on controlling Russian everywhere.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    I just click a like for a comment by mistake.Seems it cannot be fuckingly cancelled.

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I have seen the best competitive programmers are from Belarus so they must have secured a special space in these competitions that are held globally

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Its a part of the US's plan.

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Why they made this dicision?

The participants can't start or stop the war.

Is this violate the Olympic's spirition?

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    You mean that 1940 Olympic Games should have been held, and accordingly, nazi Germany should have been invited under nazi flags? Is that what you mean by "Olympic's spirition" ? The participants can't start or stop the war...

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      I have some news for you about Olympic Games. You see, they're held every 4 years and 1940-4=1936. Have you heard who had power in Germany in 1936?

      Nazi Germany was not only invited there, OG '36 were held in Berlin by them. Naturally, it was messy politically and compromises were made, e.g. allowing jews/blacks/... to participate (after initially banning them), removing "no jews" signs from the venue temporarily or allowing winners to heil hitler during ceremonies. Greatest supporters of the untermensch theory were naturally seething.jpg when those won golds, but in the end, Germany placed 1st overall so they were satisfied.

      Before pretending to know something about history, you need to actually learn it.

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
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        (not so) Fun fact: first TV signal capable of leaving the atmosphere was Hitler's speech at the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games. So technically, if aliens managed to tune into our TV frequencies, the first thing they would see would be the speech by Hitler. Scary.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      They can participate in the name of individual. And Russia is not Nazi.

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Absolutely not fair, if Russia can't go to IOI then don't let any country from NATO go to IOI, that would be fair.

Every recognised country should be allowed go to IOI, regardless of their political situation.

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3 months ago, # |
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Definitely not fair, but not even remotely as unfair as innocent Ukrainians dying. Generally, life is unfair.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
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    ok millions of people are starving in Africa, maybe you'd send all your food to them? not even remotely as unfair

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
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      Ok lets go deeper. Say, I do not want to send food to starving children to Africa. Then someone has to put a gun to my head to force me right? Now tell me how is this not comparably unfair to them starving?

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -17 Vote: I do not like it

        i think you don’t get the message, making other people suffer doesn’t make this situation fair

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +161 Vote: I do not like it

It's mind-boggling to me how many people here are enraged by the fact Russian contestants won't be able to start under the Russian flag. For me that's absolutely obvious that is something I would LOVE as Russian contestant.

Apart from losing right of starting under your country's flag, they cannot attend the event in-person. But, if Russian representation was sent, I believe it would be coached by some people coming from some Russian university and basically all Russian universities expressed their support for the war. Even if particular coaches would not support the war (which I hoghly believe would be the case), it is understandable that's definitely a very bad look (even if their rectors were pressed) that IOI would host representatives of institutions officially supporting the war.

Basically any non-trolls agree that Russian war is gruesome and terrible act and would prefer if it never happened. As such, Russians should be ashamed of their country and I would hate to represent Russia if I was Russian IOI contestant — that should be considered as a gift for them. To give you some justification — maybe some of you have noticed that me and a few of my high rated Polish friends removed our Polish flags for a few months sth like 0,5-1 year ago. That was our little protest act against some bad events that were happening in Poland and we were ashamed of being Polish at the time (tbh I don't even remember the exact cause now, but I guess it was either connected to LGBT intolerance or banning abortion or both). Our reasons were not even remotely close to such cruelty as starting a war in a peaceful country, hence I believe all clearly thinking Russians should be ashamed of their country right now.

Many people here repeat "but Russians students have done nothing wrong!". Yes, that's true. But Ukrainian students have done nothing wrong too, yet they are dying or losing their homes right now. Surely that decision is just a minor effect on a country scale, but the punishment is very minor thing on a country scale too. It's taking away from Russia some part of its international glory and such decision may make its way to Russian Ministry of Education that along with hopefully similar decisions from other disciplines could lead to them expressing their dissatisfaction on what is happening in the international education and research scene.

I fully support the IOI decision, that's the only reasonable resolution in current times. Note that the most important thing — the right to participate (even if it is only online) — was not taken away from them. As a contestant I would just understand the world situation and accept it's the only natural thing that should have happened and be happy that I can still participate and can show some support for my Ukrainian friends by not representing Russia.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +97 Vote: I do not like it

    the right to participate (even if it is only online) — was not taken away from them

    I'm not sure if Russian participants will be officially recognized in the standings and awarded medals, it's not clear from the original wording.

    If yes, it's another messy situation about some participants being online, and all others being offline. Unless more teams join online as well because of COVID-19 or something.

    If no, there is little point in "participation", one may participate in a virtual contest at any time with exactly the same consequences.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +39 Vote: I do not like it

      The update on IOI 2022 format was shared to GA two weeks ago. Unfortunately, that wasn't shared to the wider audience, so I am going to do so now.

      The International Committee met online in February, and will continue to meet regularly as the COVID-19 situation evolves. The plan for IOI 2022 remains the same: we are preparing for an on-site IOI, but we are committed to having an online option for those delegations that cannot attend in person. This is, of course, an enormous ask for the host, and we are very grateful to Indonesia for their work in making such a “hybrid IOI” happen.

      Unlike the last two IOIs, the on-site IOI will be the main event, and the online option will (by necessity) be a lesser experience. For example: culturally, on-site participants will be able to experience Indonesia fully, and will have more opportunities to interact with contestants from across the world. Technically, on-site participants will be in a competition hall with hardware managed and supported by the host country, and with the technical committees working in the next room. Logistically, the IOI timetable will be planned around Indonesian time.

      We do understand if delegations cannot attend on-site, and we are committed to offering the online option as a fallback. However, we strongly encourage delegations to attend in person if it is safe and feasible to do so.

      We will continue to send updates in the coming months. In particular, the COVID-19 safety arrangements and IOI schedule are still under development, and we will announce these when we can. Regarding quarantine: we are hopeful that it will be possible for delegations to attend without the need to quarantine, and the hosts are currently in negotiation with the Indonesian authorities. Vaccination is likely to remain important, however, and we urge delegations to ensure that their team leaders and potential contestants will be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 before August if this is at all possible, preferably with boosters also. Again, the situation is still evolving, and we will announce more precise requirements once we know them.

      As IOI 2022 was announced to be a "hybrid IOI", I fully expect that from the competition point of view, all online contestants will be considered official contestants and as such be ranked and eligible for awards.

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        That's one obstacle off the bat, but I wouldn't say it's conclusive. I don't know specific details of decisions that were made, but if the IOI decision says so, Russian students can get "special treatment"

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          3 months ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

          Statement on the IOI website was updated with similar clarification.

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        These updates are now available in IOI 2022 website.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +83 Vote: I do not like it

    +1 for this. I also couldn't understand the community response. The goal of the act is not to disadvantage Russian students at all. And it does not (and should not) disadvantage Russian students and rather protects them.

    Regardless of the students support the war or not, the international community doesn't support the war and their country is demonized now for obvious reasons. This act simply removes their country affiliation: it actually protects the students by clearing their moral responsibility.

    I also assumed that they are eligible for medals (just like the Olympics).

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +52 Vote: I do not like it

    Many people here repeat "but Russians students have done nothing wrong!". Yes, that's true. But Ukrainian students have done nothing wrong too, yet they are dying or losing their homes right now.

    I've said it multiple times by now: this is not an either/or situation.

    Moreover if it's a good thing for the Russian participants, why are you talking about that and an obviously bad thing (Ukrainian students dying or losing their homes) as equivalent? You can't have it both ways. No, both are bad.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +88 Vote: I do not like it

    Are you trying to force people to think and act your way?

    As such, Russians should be ashamed of their country and I would hate to represent Russia if I was Russian IOI contestant — that should be considered as a gift for them.

    This is not a logical argument. This is merely your subjective opinion on the matter. I'd doubt any Russian students would care more about despising their country's act by not representing it than having to participate under a suboptimal circumstance. You're free to do whatever you want with your profile but please get off your high horse and do not presume that it is some moral standard everybody else has to follow.

    I don't really care about representing a country though. Just let the kids join the onsite event unless it's absolutely unfeasible for them to obtain their visas.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -28 Vote: I do not like it

      In that particular paragaph that you cited I focus mainly on the aspect of removing Russian flag next to their name, which has been extensively discussed here too and many people claim it is a clear offense. If you don't care about representing a country then you don't care about what my quote refers to and dismiss that part of discussion as not time-worthy, so not sure why you respond to it in the first place (maybe my quote was just not explicit enough?)

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -30 Vote: I do not like it

        I don’t care about representing a country but I’m fully aware that other people might have different opinions (like yours), to which I do understand and respect. Your point is as valid as mine, just keep it a civilized comment next time.

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          3 months ago, # ^ |
          Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

          Well, I hope I am keeping the discussion civilized. Is there a point where I crossed the line?

          And to explain myself a little bit more. I just genuinely do not understand what you were getting at. There are two aspects:
          A) Russian participants won't start under Russian flag
          B) Russian participants will start online (with unclear conditions on whether they will be recognized as official participants eligible for awards)

          I understand that some people (especially young) may disconnect themselves from what is happening in the world and social responsibility, since they never wanted this war. In the fragment you quoted I focused specifically on A and I think you're trying to interpret these words as if I was talking about B causing that we are not on the same page. It is totally understandable they may view B as "unfair" (because in some sense it definitely is), however if anything, they should be rather angry at their own government rather than IOI. It is unfair their government is so stupid it leaves IOI no choice. And regarding A — if you don't care about representing country — you don't care about A. If you care — you should be happy about A (unless you support the war, which I hope is not the case). And no matter what your opinions and moral standards are — you should not be happy about B in any case, but you should understand why it turned out to be this way.

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            3 months ago, # ^ |
            Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

            "civilized" is a bad choice of word and I apologize for that.

            You were specifically talking about A and explaining why a student should consider it "as a gift" for them. My point was that you never put B into the equation and took A as the primary factor for this decision while most of students care more about B (for ex: a comment below).

            And regarding A — if you don't care about representing country — you don't care about A. If you care — you should be happy about A (unless you support the war, which I hope is not the case).

            So what you are saying is, if I'm indifferent to representing a country, I shouldn't respond to another person's opinion on it?

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    2 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

    I will try to give a point of view from which you cannot see this situation. There are measures that affect only small groups of people who have nothing to do with war. For example, I cannot open a bank account in Sparkasse in Germany because of my nationality. For example, some students can no longer pay for living in Germany because the DAAD stopped giving them scholarships because they were born in Russia. For example, four talented students may lose the opportunity to showcase their abilities. All these people are not to blame for being born at a specific point on the world map. All these people cannot do anything in this situation, and sometimes they cannot even leave their country to stop supporting it.

    Another problem is the power in Russia. I'm afraid you don't understand that in this situation the Ministry of Education has no influence on Putin's decisions (because there were more serious situations in which it would have been possible to influence the situation).

    The last argument will be a counterargument to yours. You say that many Russian universities supported the war. Unfortunately, in Russia there is a practice that Putin appoints rectors to the best universities. Because of this, the official decisions of the university often do not coincide with the opinion of students and teachers. (I don't know a single student or teacher who would support the war).

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +37 Vote: I do not like it

Now here comes the education and academic part. The sanction and boycott should not be putted on students. And speaking of this, now it is IOI. When will ICPC announce similar statements to ban Russian universities? Or, will they?

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +60 Vote: I do not like it

I don't like the precedent this sets. Should one of Azerbaijan/ Armenia also get DQed over their war in 2020? What about that Yemen business?

Then again, my own impression is that programming contests since the mid 2000s have been quite politicized in Russia (I personally will never forget reading the WTF14 problems). It's not clear how that can be avoided (one can even argue that national pride is a big motivation for students), but such associations can lead to such reactions.

Also, I think at least at one point, a big supporter of IOI is Acer (based in Taiwan). So it is what it is.

My guess is the US cooperate based contests will do something similar. I suppose the big question is what will ICPC do.

There is also this rather disturbing pattern that about half of IOI hosts run into some internal/external conflict within a few years of hosting the event. Ones that come to mind are Egypt08, Thailand11, Kazakhstan15, Russia16, Iran17, Azerbaijan19... I don't like to think in this direction, but maybe this is saying something about the logistics of hosting such events?

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +31 Vote: I do not like it

    Sorry for going on a tangent but what is/are the WTF14 problems.

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Syrian delegation was never questioned It has been under the direct support of Bashar Alassad wife (publicly)

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -22 Vote: I do not like it

I don't think any worst can happen anymore for high school competitive programmers from the Russian Federation. Every year, full of excitement, I waited for IOI scoreboard to see how Russian students did because they are probably among the top 3 teams in IOI maybe rivaling with China and the US. It's a pity for Russian students because they did nothing wrong to deserve this.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -53 Vote: I do not like it

Russian kids

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -23 Vote: I do not like it

    epic

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 4   Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

    Chinese kids: https://i.imgur.com/bHHxM4F.png

    Let's also ban China while we are at it...

    (screenshotted from a 2020 video by China Central Television, text in background is from a movie about combat between China and the United Nations that left a hill 2 meters shorter (due to the amount of artillery used))

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

      You have no idea.

      First of all, it's about the Korean war.

      Next, the song the movie was from 1956.

      And the song is one of the most famous Chinese songs of all time. Every Chinese person has heard it.

      During the 19th and 20th century, China was bullied by the US, Britain, Japan, France, and Portugal and more.

      During the Korean War, China was afraid the United Nations and South Korea would take over North Korea and then barge in on Chinese borders (China and North Korea are connected). So the army, made up of mostly volunteers, pushed back the UN army.

      It boosted self-esteem and prestige.

      Plus, if you would like, search up the translated version of the lyrics. It's called 'My Motherland'.

      Then tell me, what's wrong with the song?

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -12 Vote: I do not like it

    What sort of an argument is this, 'there exists a school whose administration is pro-war'? Well thank you, but that doesn't say a thing about the children. They aren't even teens, I bet the pro-war administration of the facility just took some random young children who have no idea what the hell is going on to take the photo.

    And can we please stop pulling kids into these discussions? When you are that young, everything is a game, the 'Z' symbol is little more than a nice edgy popular letter, boasting positively about the war earns you a bit of nice attitude from the schoolmaster, and it is only natural to avoid painful experience. For a child, 'everyone deserves to live' and 'Russia is the greatest state in the world' are both equivalently valid axioms--they simply don't have enough material, information, and understanding to perform a cross-check with other facts. We tell children that wars are bad, but they will only recognize these mantras as rules to act on when they grow up, and only then will they understand what we really meant.

    This is the main problem I see with sanctions, overall--they don't solve the intrinsic problem. Everyone knows you need a stick and a carrot, but Russians only have sticks from multiple parties at the moment--their government on the one hand and the external world on the other hand. Friendly providing information, independent sources of information, and a way to communicate with people on the other side would be a nicer and more effective way to turn the tables over in people's heads.

    /end of rant

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

      What sort of an argument is this, 'there exists a school whose administration is pro-war'?

      As far as I found on the internet, there exist many schools where pupils (including high school) express their support with letters to soldiers and Z and V symbols.

      Of course, the children in the photo don't understand what they are doing. This is an illustration that there are kids (in particular small kids, but also the older ones as high sсhoolers) who consciously or unconsciously demonstrate their support to the war. Because of that, I think we cannot say "poor high school kids have nothing to do with war and politics".

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3 months ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -14 Vote: I do not like it

Edit: I misunderstood the statement

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    3 months ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +23 Vote: I do not like it

    By removing their affiliation Russian students were not dragged into this war-related responsibility. What are you talking about?

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +31 Vote: I do not like it

      Nevermind. I misunderstood the statement completely. I stand corrected and I think it was the right thing to do.

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      3 months ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -9 Vote: I do not like it

      No, the default state accepted by any sane human being is that they're not dragged into this war-related responsibility unless they personally support it. "We're not removing you buuuuuut" is very different.

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        3 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I see, they have the "Russian Federation", the perpetrator of this war crime, right in front of their names, and keeping it makes them somehow more independent with this war

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          3 months ago, # ^ |
          Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

          There are a bit over 11000 people with "Russia" in their profiles. Are you saying they're all complicit unless they're remove it? The students at least didn't put it in front of their names.

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            3 months ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +15 Vote: I do not like it

            I'm not saying they are complicit and of course it's not related to CF profiles. IOI is a competition where the four students "representing their nation" competes. If the students end up representing the Russian Federation: I would say it's not the students fault, it's fault of the organizer and people who supported it so they are recorded as a "representor of war perpetrator" in IOI history.

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              3 months ago, # ^ |
                Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it

              Then the students shouldn't be punished for it and it definitely shouldn't be treated as something the students should be thankful for. A symbolic move like replacing the country by something like ROC at OG would serve the same purpose, kicking the students out of almost everything but allowing them to kinda sorta maybe participate under different conditions from everyone else isn't fair.

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                3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Vote: I like it +25 Vote: I do not like it

                The students are not being punished except the onsite participation. I don't think the IOI can support their visas or anything to accept them in an onsite contest.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

                  The students are not being punished except for the part where they're being punished, gotcha. The IOI statement doesn't mention visa at all so I think you're just making excuses.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -61 Vote: I do not like it

                  Here's an easier example for you. Imagine an onsite participation with both Ukraine and Russian participants. The Russian delegation involves Russian officials and their support of the war indicates that they may do dangerous thing to the Ukrainian delegation. (I personally don't believe it but that's the situation.) If you have to choose one then it should be obviously Ukrainian participating.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

                  Can you provide at least one bad thing which Russia did in competitions? Olympiads etc? Everyone can do everything, but can you provide at least one example or motivation to do it? Or you thing that russians/russian government are bloody monsters which just hate ukrainians?

                  Now let me turn back into history. First international olympiad was IMO 1959 in Romania organised by countries from socialistic camp and presented by them. Geography were expanded, and in 1974, for example, both Britain and USA were presented. In tense cold war times olympiad made by USSR camp were unifying event, now USA camp turned it into another political leverage.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

                  The Russian government is a bloody monster that kills Ukrainians. That is absolutely true and it's happening right now in a form of war. And this scale is unprecedented since 1959.

                  I, of course, want to think about this separately with ordinary Russian people. But if their delegation, not only schoolboys but with government officials, participate "onsite as a Russian official" it's very hard to think as an individual matter. Remember, your country is at war and anything can happen. If I was a Ukrainian participant I'd definitely feel threatened.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -44 Vote: I do not like it

                  Proofs, proofs... At least one official russian propaganda statement that all ukrainians are bad or smth like that, please. Or, for example, prove that russian army is fighting versus civilians.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

                  You need a proof for statement "The Russian government is a bloody monster that kills Ukrainians"?

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -52 Vote: I do not like it

                  Yes, i need this. You are so convinient, you should have some proofs, right?

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 4   Vote: I like it -22 Vote: I do not like it

                  I am stating that before the war in Ukraine was much bigger anti-Russian sentiments, that anti-Ukrainian — in Russian.

                  Moreover, Russia is waging war with as much caring to ukrainian civilians , as possible. Probably bigger, then ukrainian government. Repression machine in Ukraine now is much more cruel aswell. Wanna me to prove that?

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +48 Vote: I do not like it

                  Yes, I can google "russian ukraine civilian loss", "russian ukraine mass shelling" and it cites various resources including CNBC, United Nations HCR, Guardian, Human Rights Watch. But well, they are all western propaganda, since I know their names. Right?

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

                  Yeah, how thankful Ukrainians should be. Now that we are not talking about IOI students but instead about some US propagandas or shit, I'm out.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 5   Vote: I like it -74 Vote: I do not like it

                  Let's go.

                  First your proof — less then 1000 civilians in almost 3 weeks. Are you even realizing, how small this number is (and i am really sad about all this victims)? Compare with USA in Iraq, Belgrad bombing or any other modern war. In Donbass (ukrainian territory) was sluggish civil war until 2014 with more then 3000 civilian victims due to osce reports. Does it mean that Ukraine government hates ukrainians too?

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +54 Vote: I do not like it

                  It sounds like you're suggesting that some wars are worse than others. "Oh, this war wasn't that bad, don't hate them. But them ruskis genociding right and left". It could've been better for everyone if the conflict was resolved without blood. but we live in a society wcyd

                  Feel threatened by russian delegation? I could be wrong but I don't think country delegations have obligatory nazis.

                  Overall I think decision made by the IOI committee was good. You wrote earlier that there could be visa problems and I think it'll be nearly impossible to travel to Indonesia from Russia. So it doesn't really make any difference, it could be even beneficial for russian team.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +38 Vote: I do not like it

                  I was not. I couldn't find any full scale war that happened between two olympiad participating countries after 1959. Afghanistan having no IMO participation, Bosnia participating IOI after 1997, Nagorno-Karabakh after IOI 2020. maybe Georgian war but it was so quick, and so on..

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

                  Ok, I see. I thought you wrote that only Vietnam and ukr-rus wars deserved the international condemnation on that scale. Yeah, it's unprecedented in the IOI history.

                  The idea of the participants from countries in the state of war competing shoulder-to-shoulder, sure, sounds nice. Maybe it's too naive.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

                  Yeah, "participants from countries in the state of war competing shoulder-to-shoulder", that's the bleak situation. I personally believe in the Russian delegation, but from the organizer's POV, it's not responsible to allow it.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +53 Vote: I do not like it

                  In such a case, it'd make sense to ban the Russian delegation from participating. However, there's nothing even remotely hinting at it happening. Countless random joes work for governments. Many Russian officials don't support the war. Delegations from mutually hostile countries have been at olympiads in the past without incident. If you think we could expect your scenario to happen, might as well declare that you hate all Russians who haven't yet died fighting the Russian government — because that's a shitton of presumption of guilt.

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                  3 months ago, # ^ |
                  Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

                  gnomina, your proof is totally wrong. First, in Serbia in 1999 there were about 500 civilian victims. Second, victims in Donbass go to account of Russia, although one may argue in what part. I hope you will change your mind about Russia caring of civilian victims.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

International organizations are against only the Russian government. No one against ordinary Russians, it's just propaganda, say them.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

What did the Russian students do to you? They are not to blame for the war, they did not start the war.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +118 Vote: I do not like it

At this pace, they will probably disqualify students if they use z as the iteration variable.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

I used to agree that IC could handle things fairly and without any political prejudice until I saw this post. Feeling really disappointed about this.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

It is disappointing that a great country is destroying by one leader, and others suffer.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +281 Vote: I do not like it

I used to be an IOI participant from Russia and I participated in IOI 5 times. I remember how we had to do some photos with Russian flag and wear some Russian symbolics. Personally, I didn't care about it, it was just some stuff we had to do as a part of a Russian national team. Likewise, I am indifferent to the decision of banning Russian flag, and I can understand the reasons behind it.

I would assume that it doesn't matter for the participants at all under which flag they are in the standings — they are focused on the competition and solving the problems.

However, I also participated in both onsite and online IOIs. I can definitely say that there is a huge difference between attending an onsite and participating from home country, even on some bootcamp. It still doest't feel like a real olympiad, despite all the effort our coaches put into making it seem like one.

I am disappointed that this year's participants won't be able to feel the full spirit of the competition, and as most of them would probably be graduating this year as well, it is especially sad.

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3 months ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -47 Vote: I do not like it

Russian people are not guilty of Putin attacking Ukraine. Please return them to the competition

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Codeforces just turned into political dogfight arena

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -32 Vote: I do not like it

Sorry guys this is me responsible for invasion in Ukraine

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -91 Vote: I do not like it

How about keeping IOI free from political judgements. Else first ban NATO countries since NATO has committed more war crimes than anyone else.

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

"freedom and fairness"

"Science without borders"

"Education without borders"

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3 months ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -25 Vote: I do not like it

It will hurt Putin as hard as

Spoiler