MikeMirzayanov's blog

By MikeMirzayanov, history, 3 weeks ago, In English,

Hello Codeforces!

Initially, here was an announcement of the first round for the fourth division. But currently, in comments there is the huge discussion of division 4 rounds in general. Honestly, I read all (almost all) comments.

I decided to replace the text of this post to match the comments better. Also, I'll write one more post separately to discuss problems. And this post will be about division 4 rounds in general.

About Div4 rounds:

  • I'm not afraid of a queue or servers overload: it is technical challenges and my task is to resolve them. The previous biggest rounds were not overshadowed by technical problems and judging delays, they went well. I see no reasons why something should work much worse in the rounds for Div. 4 (and if it does, then this should be fixed).

  • I don't think that Div. 3 rounds are too dificult. Actually, they are quite good for beginners. They are noticeably easier than Div. 2. Almost every round trusted participants solve all problems, many participants solve all without one problem. I think in general they are OK.

  • Now I don't like the idea to run in parallel Div. 3 and Div. 4 rounds (like we do for Div. 1 and Div. 2). Div. 3 rounds are harder to prepare and I don't think we can host them more than once per ~2 weeks. It means that such rounds will not give new contests for newcomers and grays/greens (I think Div. 3 are already interesting rounds for them to take part). But separate Div. 4 rounds will be easier to prepare (even than Div. 3) and probably making them we can offer more contests for low rated participants.

  • I'd like to repeat: Div. 3 and Div. 4 rounds doesn't affect the rate of Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. The coordinators focus only on Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. All Div3 (and future, if any, Div4) rounds are prepared without any help from the coordinators.

  • I do not think that by hosting Div. 4 rounds, we will lower the quality of problems. Now, I don't plan to use absolutely A+B level problems even for the Div. 4. I think problems of level like Div3A-Div3D are good candidates.

Thanks for your attention to this idea!

 
 
 
 
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3 weeks ago, # |
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EXCITED!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I hope that frequency of Div 1/2 rounds are not affected by them.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Now I started to feel locked down for real!

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      I like the rated rounds only. Div 2 is the best rounds.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Do we have any thing which reduces our rating below 1400 before 9th may. So that we will be rated.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Hopefully not affected. See this

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3 weeks ago, # |
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At this rate we'll have div10 for negatively rated people.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    I'll try to be the first participant

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      there are already 13 negatively rated people.

      the minimun rating is -41.\Joking

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Gratitude!

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Regardless of whether you are a trusted participant of the ten's division or not, if your rating is less than 0, then the round will be rated for you. Lol

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      To qualify as a trusted participants of the tenth division, you must:

      • take part in at least two rated rounds (and submit at least once in each of them)

      • do not have a point of 50 or higher in the rating after your rating is lower than 0

      • Your rating is less than 0

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Solving div10 questions should be interesting. Looking forward to it!

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      (I guess) the questions will have similar difficulty to the following sample question:

      A. Output an integer
      
      Input: There will be no input
      
      Output: Output any integer you like (it will be accepted as long as it is an integer.)

      (This feels like April Fools' more than a rated div 10 lol)

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Codeforces Round 1000(Div.10) Total:20000 Participants:10 Out of Competition:19990

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Wow is this the highest upvoted comment of all time

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    At this rate we'll have div5 for newbies.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Thus I have gotten demoted once again! Anyways thanks for the effort!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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:OOOOO

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3 weeks ago, # |
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When is the old Round 640 planned to be held?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    300iq and writers will announce it soon.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      will the contest be rated for unrated accounts?

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        It is written clearly that to qualify as a participant of the 4th round, you must have taken part in at least 2 rated contest! So for unrated accounts, it won't be rated.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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          those specifications are only to qualify as a trusted participant. anyone who rating less than 1400 the round is rated for them, but regarding whether unrated contestants will be rated or not is not clearly mentioned uptil now.

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

            Yes, I just saw the list of participants registered for Div 4. Unrated accounts ratings are written as 0 and they are "in the competition". So it is rated for unrated accounts. Sorry for my misinterpretation.

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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            don't bother your rating is not less than 1400 ivand7

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              3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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              I just got a little curious and hence asked about it :)

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                3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                are you planning to make new accounts? disgusting...You should be banned from codeforces..ivand7

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                  3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  not at all, just got curious thats all! Don't misinterpret :)

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                  3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  I know you are gonna do this.. Since you are a pro at coding you will do all problems with the new account and thus you will screw the contest for green and grey coders...I will mail mike to ban you from CF

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                  3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  a kind request, please dont't misinterpret and don't spread hate :)

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                  3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                  ok....dekar

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      I hope the round will still be at the same time of the day. It's been a long time since the last contest held at unusual time for other time zones.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Mike, I think for those who have green and gray colors it would be worth giving more time to solve problems, many of us type slowly.

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I wonder if CF caught corona.

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Not excited

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It's not april 1st anymore

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I hope I can solve 3 or 4 issues in div4, div2 is too hard for me

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Why not all? It will be not too hard) I wish you luck!)

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      I am not confident in my abilities, but I will try, thank you

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        But you know you are a stable pupil so this should be easy for you and you've got this!! :)

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Is this a joke? The site was already suffering due to cancerous div 3's and the rating inflation that they were causing and now div 4's. No words to say. I guess mike only cares about traffic on the site now.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Well it's just an experiment and maybe it will be good for beginners. We were all there at some point.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      I think div 3 's are much more than enough for upsolving for beginners. Div 4 will just cause more rating inflation and all we will have are undeserved experts who reached that rank only by competing against other pupils and newbies.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        You may be right but I think that inflation you're talking about will lead them to a [1400-1600] range not more so 1600+ rated members won't notice any difference

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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          Cyans are touching CM after div3's. So i expect pupils to reach 1600-1700 easily by being in top 50(not hard)

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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            Yeah you're right. But in those cases these cyan people are solving maybe all the problem set in-contest which is something I personally wasn't able to do yet even in Div3. It's maybe odd but I think they deserve it if they really did that

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              3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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              Suppose it was a div2 contest than a div3 with the exact same problems. Do you think all of them would be able to reach that rank. I dont think so. BECAUSE THERE IS REAL AND TOUGH COMPETITION THEN!

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                3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                Please think carefully. People with up to 2400 rating doing div3 rounds regularly fail to FC a div3 problemset. And most of the people gaining high rating from div3 rounds are previously unrated participants (here's a little hint: if they can beat a gm, they're probably a gm). So yeah, my guess is that they can probably reach that rank...

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

            You are absolutely right but there is a possibility that they might struggle in the future competitions. So it won't matter much I guess.

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              3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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              And that brings me to my next point. Many people leave after reaching a certain rank. Hence more people around that rating since they fear that their rating will fall.

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                3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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                The rating in codeforces is simply not relative. If after reaching a certain rank, people leave, it is their loss and that really cant be accounted for inflation then because an inactive account is not really the same as an active account. However, if someone was able to maintain their rating, they probably deserved it.

                The plus side, really is that it would account for further testing and will be a good platform for beginners.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Div3 was an experiment as well.
      But nobody ever bothered to show what were the outcomes of that experiment before starting a new one.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        Oh the outcomes were great although it does not affect you and me right now, but for beginners which are the bigger part of this community yeah it was great.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +39 Vote: I do not like it

    Vicious Coder with vicious words! It's a good opportunity for beginners who have more to care about than their score

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Rightly said. He is too bothered about other people reaching expert instead of increasing his own rating.

      He couldn't see a positive side of such contest which brings more people to this world. It gives motivation to many people to try harder.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        I think it's time to address the elephant in the room. If you aren't >= cyan after a month or two, you just aren't practicing hard. The people in div 4 range are either completely new or unmotivated, both of which won't be inspired to try harder by such a round. I was motivated most by wanting to be in div 1, not by having low level rounds. I think the round is fine now as it's basically another testing round, but not a good thing for the future, and div 3 is the lowest level it should go.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

          Competitive programming is an entertainment and possibly a sport, not a job. I, at the moment, participate in most rounds, and spend time practicing between rounds, but if someone just wants to do the occasional round for fun, and to test their skills, that is fine with me whatever level they are at.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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          What you said would be true in most cases. But as a programmer, we should know that there might be few corner cases. Some people might be trying hard but in wrong direction like practicing easy problem a lot. This division might give them confident that they can do easy problems and it's time to practice some hard problem. As Mike said, the number of other rounds won't be affected by this. So, I don't understand how it is harming anyone. Being optimistic, may be in future these divisions will lay a perfect and well defined path for becoming a good programmer.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +41 Vote: I do not like it

      2 years back, there were just 2 divisions. But did beginners then have no opportunity to practice then? Not at all. People practiced harder problems and improved themselves. If you think solving a round just filled with Div2-A's will help then i am sorry to inform you that it will not be helpful in the long run.

      Yes i used harsh words but the sole reason of that is because i feel codeforces is losing its essence now and that triggers me.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    I think the real purpose of CodeForces is to make us better at algorithmic thinking and prepare for ICPC / ACM. Sure, knowing a "rating" is nice. At the end of the day, the real purpose of practicing CP is "Can I solve XYZ challenging problem I haven't seen before?"

    As a community, we should look at the rating system as an arbitrary benchmark someone decided to implement and don't question it too much. Instead, we should look at improving ourselves and our abilities.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      1) How does a Div 4 help for ICPC?

      2) There needs to be some motivation for everything in life. Rating is a motivation to do CP and there no denying that. This is analogous to being a youtube creator. Sure he likes to create and edit videos but the real motivation comes from the views and likes on the video.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        1) For more experienced people, it probably doesn't. So we should ignore it and stick to our Div 1 / 2. For newbs, it probably gives them a glimpse into solving problems on a clock and some of the more basic ideas.

        2) In some (e)sports, they use tournaments or races to determine relative standings. At the end of each CF contest, we can also look at how we ranked relative to the other contestants. This will be a noisy signal (much like rating), but over time it should give you a sense of progress.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    How exactly do Div 4 contests cause rating inflation? The sum of participants ratings is the same after and before. The main thing that causes rating inflation is more users. But that's a good thing, because it means a higher rating means you're better than more users.

    Rating inflation is such a stupid thing to worry about anyways. And if you look at the some of the top people on the website who have done this for many years, their rating has been pretty stable for the past few years anyways.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    I know a lot a lot of participants who always participate and solve 0, 1, or two problems maximum and its fair enough to have there own contest also its really helpful for the newcomers to have a contest where they can see there improving after practicing

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Agree. OR Div4 and Div3 should have better rating calculation formula.

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Div 4 .. lets see something new rules.

Hope I it will be fun for official participates.good luck for all.

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So can you not participate in this round if you are an unrated account?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    You can, and your rating will change.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    No may be. Because codeforces rating starts with 1500. So by default , any unrated account should have rating 1500 initially

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Seems Yes !!! I am new (unrated) here and it doesn't show me as out of competition after registering.

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Yay DIV 4! Its time for me to Shine

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    that was a great shining XD

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Ya I wasn't too good too solve all in contest! But check this out and feel free to show me yours if u did any

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Waiting for div10 round with a rating less than 100.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    You need to start practicing really hard to be able to officially participate in it!

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      It's not like you can magically reduce queue times. Otherwise, Mike would have done it already.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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        That's exactly why he was thrown out of a window!

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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          Absolutely Correct :)

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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          The idiots who downvoted that must have been thinking that I was referring to Mike. lol

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Now, Its time to contribute to Problem setting.

Too many things are happening. :)

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Welcome to new era of codeforces. Division 4.

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I hope I will be able to solve more problems in this round.

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THX Mike. I hope that the situation with difficulties of Div. 3 rounds' tasks won't repeat in Div. 4.

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Reducing the difficulty of Div.3 instead seems like a much better option than a whole new division that just excludes specialists.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Agree.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Yes very true there's no point in just excluding specialists and make another division . This means if contestants keep on increasing more and more divisions will be made .We should not forget many contestants have multiple accounts .

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    +1000

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Consider we reduce the difficulty of Div1. And the hardest problem is solved by ~100 participants. Is it good? We have the same with Div3. Now almost each round we have trusted participants who solved all the problems, tens or hundreds solve without 1 problem. Typically, all problems gradually increase in complexity. What is the reason to change it? Why do you want to remove interesting and useful problems from some official participants? This will lead to the fact that the top is determined solely by speed. What for?

    My point of view that green and cyan participants have some gap in skills. Usually, you need fewer efforts/less time to prepare easier problems (at least for me). I expect that the preparation of Div4 is easy if you are a skilled writer. I believe that it will only be better if we have rounds for both very beginners and the rest of the audience. Why not? I don't have any plans to reduce the rate of Div 1-3 rounds. Actually, now I don't have plans for regular Div4. I think we need to look at the feedback, results and popularity.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      You can add one more trivial problem in div3 or make it div3+4 if you want to avoid having 7-8 problems.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      But the goal of Div. 3 is to allow people to advance to higher divisions. So there's no reason to compare that to top contestants in Div. 1. If a person solves all the problems in Div. 3 then they should solve problems in Div. 2. I don't see why it is an argument for adding the new division.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      in a way this only affects specialist users badly, i can't see why it shouldn't be a rated contest (or simply div 3 like everyone is saying) for specialists.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      thank you MikeMirzayanov for everything , I was bit shy in telling you the same for so long you had helped me in improving. Thanks for your concern all your dedication for this community

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      The overall feedback will obviously be positive because of the amount of greys and greens in the site and since a div4 is basically a win-win situation for them.

      I personally don't have a problem with div4 if the frequency of div1-3 doesn't change but I think the frequency of div1-3 will eventually go down if div4s become a regular thing.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Hi Mike,

      I think you are absolutely correct, these changes should be data driven than based on some mere comments... Also I believe that its easier to come up with a div4 round, which can be used to make lower rated participants learn important tricks and techniques to become better coders.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      In some blog in CF about how to be a better coder I read today that "if you aren't cyan by 2 months of problem solving then you aren't trying hard enough". I liked it, and thought about trying hard enough to be a cyan. Div4 isn't a problem for me if I am still allowed to participate in Div2 rounds. I guess I am not (A bit confused about that since in the calender I see Div2 contest 1 hour 30 minutes earlier than Div4 and I cannot enter into Div2 link there).

      That's where it is a bit sad, since I wouldn't be competing against hard competitors above my level to know actually where I stand.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      I have a concern. Does that mean Div. 2 and Div. 3 rounds will be harder :( ? will Div. 2 will be restricted like Div. 1 is sometimes?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -9 Vote: I do not like it

    Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the point of having another division(Div4) to reduce the number of participants in Div2 and Div3 contests so as to prevent the recent issues?

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +15 Vote: I do not like it

I wish It is div 3 with less difficulty . Div 3 with less difficulty == Div 4

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -57 Vote: I do not like it

BTW I would like to see Div. 10 lmao tasks for people with negative rating

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -35 Vote: I do not like it

    Why does any stupid comment of Div. 1 have +100500 rating, but specialists get too much minuses? Such of strange effects, d'you think so?

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

      It's because there were already two comments with the same idea as yours, posted earlier than yours.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -63 Vote: I do not like it

        I don't read the previous comments. Is it base to blame me?

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +35 Vote: I do not like it

          Well do you expect people to upvote you then?

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it -39 Vote: I do not like it

            No, I've just wanted to write a comment. In this case you might ignore it. Such an easy way to be honest.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -24 Vote: I do not like it

    It's funny to see people that put minuses on comment of random low-rate like a hamsters. Be kind :)

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

    Ok, it was a very strange first experience of interaction with Codeforces' community...

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +73 Vote: I do not like it

A little typo:

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

This is sad. Disappointed.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +37 Vote: I do not like it

Why not keep a Div 3 contest instead of making a new division and keeping a Div 4 contest?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Bdw, This post has broken my heart </3 .

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3 weeks ago, # |
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It's exactly what starters needed (at least i did)! Really hope everything would work fine! Make Codeforces great again!

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -11 Vote: I do not like it

Great news! Looking forward to the round! :)

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +62 Vote: I do not like it

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +29 Vote: I do not like it

What is the point of making Div4? I think that Div3 problems are simple enough.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

    They are simple for u, because you have many expirience in solving such tasks. The gray and low green haven't got it much and Div3 round D, E and F is too difficult for them. I wish you luck! Have a nice evening

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +67 Vote: I do not like it

      I think D, E and F should be difficult. I'm Div. 1 and I almost never solve D, E, F in Div. 1 rounds :D

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Just go to any standings page and you would see a lot of greens have solved Div3 D, even some solved div3 E. What you have to know is you can solve div3 E because a lot of guys in your rating range solves that. So, it's the luck, sometimes it would favor you and sometimes not.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

      Yeah, but what's the point in solving more if the reason is them being easy instead of us improving.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    not for everyone, some people who are new to programming needs div 4. I support cf in this Disceason if they donot reduce frequency of div 2 contests

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +62 Vote: I do not like it

Codeforces: good job getting high rating of 2100+! As a reward, rated rounds for you are like once every half a year now!

Just kidding, but for real, I hope div2+ rounds don't start taking 90% of the schedule now with more round types.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +104 Vote: I do not like it

    We never reduced the rate of Div1 and Div2 rounds because different people work on them (I'm the only common point). Since 2010 we try to have ~3 Div1/Div2 and ~3 Div2 rounds per month (sometimes we have 4+2 rounds, but it even better usually).

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +83 Vote: I do not like it

I hope this will be the first and last div4 contest.

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it

Regardless of whether you are a trusted participant of the THIRD division or not, if your rating is less than 1400, then the round will be rated for you. I am sorry, but I think here is a mistake, and there must be fourth division, not third. UPD: Fixed

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +89 Vote: I do not like it

I want to be absolutely, completely sure that everything works as it should before the start of a Div.1 / Div.2 round. So I decided to do such an experiment

  1. Ok, this is an experiment. So are users with rating above 1400 encouraged to participate out of competition to stress test the queue?

  2. Is this only an experiment to test the queue? If so, cool, I think this is a great idea. Since it's rated, participation will be high.

Otherwise, I don't think Div.4 contests should become a thing. It's better to keep focus on the already existing divisions, instead of adding a new one and wasting time creating and testing trivial problems. Besides, I think Div.3 is good enough for beginners. At least the first three tasks are doable with little experience in programming. With Div4 we might as well copy problems from geeksforgeeks.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +26 Vote: I do not like it

    I don't think having a Div4 would take time away from the individuals writing other division contests. See Mike's comment here.

    I also think there would be plenty of individuals to choose from to write these contests, like myself. I've prepared contests for my university countless times, where problems ranged from easier than Div3A to around the difficulty of a Div3D.

    Everyone who competed in the competitions I wrote were brand new to competitive programming, and most gave very positive feedback on how they felt like they learned something new. Of course, I directed them to Codeforces so that they can continue to learn, but none of them really picked it up. Why? I'm not too sure, but having an easier division might be more inviting.

    Either way, lets see the results from this experiment. If this Div4 contest pulls in new users or pulls back old users, that would be amazing for the Codeforces community. I'm interested to see what kind of data Mike is able to gather.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      You do have a point, people in my school also don't keep up with CF. And talent in competitive programming involves a huge range, which could be further partitioned into more divisions. And yes, maybe new users come in with Div.4.

      But I also think most of those people who "don't pick up CF" aren't too interested in competitive programming. At least the ones I know participate once or twice because they want to try something new, or they want to prepare for a tech interview, etc. Yes, some of them could have serious potential at CP, but I have to say, they're a minority.

      I think codeforces is for people interested in reaching a serious level in programming competitions. So I think they "don't pick up CF" because they're not really interested enough to be persistent, disciplined, and do an effort in solving CF problems. If they want to prepare for interviews or learn basic stuff, they can go to leetcode or hackerrank, which are specifically designed for that kind of people. Codeforces should remain a platform for people that do competitive programming simply because they love it.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I agree, but does lowering the barrier for discovering a new love for CP on CF have any negative affect? Genuine question, haven't really thought about it much.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

          I don't think it has a negative effect. People with real interest in CP will eventually pick it up. There might be some exceptions, but I bet you if CF brings in more users like the ones I'm talking about, the following things will increase dramatically:

          • Posts such as: "I AM GETTING WA PLEASE HELP", "HOW TO GET RED", "HELP WITH INTERVIEW QUESTION".
          • Comments such as "I hope I get green today", "I hate the problem set", "Good luck everyone", "Tourist is like Darth Vader".
          • Users with no respect to the community, posting cancer, insulting people, and spamming without caring of getting downvoted.
          • Difficulty of finding good, advanced, interesting posts/comments between the trash ones.
          • More contestants desperate for attention (a.k.a cheaters).

          I think these things are more worrying than letting grays solve more than one problem a contest.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

What's the rating bounds of Div2 and Div1 now? Does it remain the same?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

really excited__

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +22 Vote: I do not like it

Is it just another test round?

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

Definitely not a good move.

Instead,the difficulty of Div3 should have been adjusted.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

time to grind for div3 nice lil goal

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

Can users under 1399 participate in div2 after adding div4?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

Will the round be rated for me as I am an untrusted member?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

    everyone knows this is a fake account, i hate people like you, you registered 7 weeks ago and solved only 1 problem. Also one of your past comments suggest that you have already participated in div2 rounds. Even if this is your real account, how the hell you came to senses after 3 hours of the anouncement of div4 rounds. Why can't you participate with your real i.d?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

Division 4, only where new users are unrated!!

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

nice

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I think It is better to add easier problems to Div.3 than to hold Div.4. But... I'm excited!!

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Wondering what would be the maximum rating of the problems in Div 4

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

Almost all problems (or even all) will contain multiple test cases — this will prevent the occurrence of a queue, simplify the preparation of tests.

I'd actually do the exact opposite to stress-test the system, if I understood the sentence correctly.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

    This is done to decrease the load, not to stress test the system.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

      But since the motivations for this post was to make sure everything works fine before we have another Div1/Div2 round, is it not better to actually stress test the system?

      To see if the fixes worked correctly?

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I think that was an explanation for this scheduling (moving div1+2 round and having a div4 now), not for the whole existence of div4.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +51 Vote: I do not like it

Why not just make div3 easier?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

WTH!!?? just like ABC contests at Atcoder. i cant even imagine the round easier than div3 "/

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

MikeMirzayanov Will the unrated users also be rated ?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    They will be rated. My friend new on codeforces just registered and is not registered out of competition.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    AND the answer is NO

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

i have been waiting for a long time sir :">

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

It will be "Testing Round", but with 5-8 problems)

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

I am very excited as a begginer programmer, I don't get why people is so mad over this, and also you all are getting mad over Mike, but what he does, is just thinking for all. If there will be any future Div 4, how does that affect you Div 3 / 2 / 1 participants, he said that there will be no less Div 3 / 2 / 1 rounds. You should really reconsider your way of thinking over Div 4.

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +94 Vote: I do not like it

If this Div 4 project works, can we add a lower bound or threshold rating for Div 2 participation like in Div 1 ? I think this alone would resolve long queue issues due to congested servers. MikeMirzayanov

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    +1

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +15 Vote: I do not like it

    Usually long queues only happen if there're something wrong with the jugding system.

    Low-rated people can hardly solve Div.2 C. (Mostly) Div.2 A and B are light problems.They don't take up much judging resources.So they don't affect much.

    So I don't think it's necessary to set threshold for Div.2 .

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      I'm not sure but I think queues are not problem-independent so Heavy traffic on A might also affect submissions on other problem.

      Maybe I'm wrong though if you have more information please share it

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Problem A can be solved in ~5 min for high-rated participants, and for low-rated, it takes up about 15~30 min.(Div.2 A isn't very easy for them) Then, they won't collide with each other,which reduces the instant load of the servers.

        What's more, usually there's only 2~3 pretests for Div.2 A , so judging will be faster.

        So the queue will not get crowded (Though if you put A+B with 100 pretests at Div.2 A, judging system will blow up)

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          I wouldn't estimate the time it takes for a beginner to solve a problem you see it can take him between 10 and 100 minutes. The mere fact of having like 10k extra submissions per contest being transferred somewhere else would be good for serious participants

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            Most of these submissions distribute evenly in the 120-min contest, so they don't affect too much.

            I don't think situation will change very much if we block these submissions.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          And high-rated participants would solve ABC in 15-30 minutes.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

      About 6-8k people solve Div 2 A-B, but not Div 2 C, lots of them are cyan or grey or unrated(lets say 6k extra submissions for A and 4k for B), its just too many even if the problems are light.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

        Usually the number of Participants solved the problem(described as solved below) increases fast at the beginning of the contest, then slowly at the middle/ending.

        Participants with high rating will solve A and B in 5~10 min , so solved increases fast.The Low-rated solve them in 30~120 min, evenly distributed, so solved increase slowly.

        Although 6~8K submissions seem a lot, actually they are not too many because most of them distributed evenly in the 120-minute contest.

        That's my opinion.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

          It would be one submission every second in the best case, its still too much. Just end it here.

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            3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            Alright.Maybe we can discuss it after the first Div.4 contest :D

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +26 Vote: I do not like it

    I don't think Div 4 contests would become frequent, but having lower bound for Div 2 is a great solution(i also came up with the same idea then i saw you comment)

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +28 Vote: I do not like it

Future ~~~~~ LGM : DIV1 GM : DIV2. MASTER : DIV3 CM : DIV4 EXPERT : DIV5 SPECIALIST : DIV6 PUPIL : DIV7 NEWBIE : DIV8 -ve RATING : DIV9 ~~~~

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

congratulation to all trusted participant

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -30 Vote: I do not like it

Exactly what I needed to get started, I'm a complete noo00b lol

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

    codeforces starting rate is 1500. The round is rated for 1399 or less. You won't be rated.

    Edit: I think it will be rated(Not sure though). There are not a lot of details though(A bit confusing).

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +173 Vote: I do not like it

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Please clarify if it will be rated for unrated users

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I hope after everything is sorted out have we have frequent contests! Best thing during this time

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

thanks for Div. 4

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -30 Vote: I do not like it

40ih5v.jpg

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Lockdown effects...Corona

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +9 Vote: I do not like it

uh, I guess its speed-forces round.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

"In typical div.2 rounds, gray and green participants rarely can solve more than 2 problems", it hurt me deep though it may true.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    i am also hurted though i can solve 3 or 4 problem rarely

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Greens like us have to be above rank 5200 to increase rating (lot of contestants in Corona time).We get close to solve C, but can't make it in contest time. Hope in future we'll improve and solve upto C regularly.

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Or you should solve problems A and B very quickly and try to hack people if you can.

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          3 weeks ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          Training typing speed on problems A and B is useful because it gives you more time to think about problem C.

          Which is why the suggestion that you then go on to hack people confuses me. Wouldn't it be better to use the remaining time to think about problem C? Yes, hacking is cool and all, but there's an upper bound to how much you can actually get from hacking (not just in contest, but in general in terms of skills you gain). That time is probably better utilised to think about the harder problems so that you can one day solve them, which would be much more beneficial to both skill increase and rating gain.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Like seriously, have you seen any standings page. In every div2 round, at least 50 people in your rating range does better than me. How they do that? They got the luck and you don't. You would get luck also. But, you can solve div2 D, that didn't kicked on your head during contest time.

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

I know its not a good place to ask it but i don't know where to ask, how to become a tester, specially for this special round?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +75 Vote: I do not like it

A meme became reality...

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

Very excited!

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

How about running div3 and div4 together like div1 and div2 happens...

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

i think its good news for gray and green coder for increasing their rating including me

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +54 Vote: I do not like it

div5 rounds when?

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -11 Vote: I do not like it

well..this is interesting and thank you so much mike for your great effort..the test round was awesome ..take love <3

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +31 Vote: I do not like it

I see a lot of people commenting why div4 is a bad idea. In some way I agree to those ideas, but to share my opinion — why is this so bad afterall?

People have already complained why div3 is a bad idea, and yet I think it had some good effects for beginners who just started solving these problems.

I don't know if beginners feel current div3 challenging, but unlike Atcoder Beginner Contests, I think 1200-rated people will feel third or even second problem in Div3 challenging. For motivation and improvements, why shouldn't codeforces offer rounds for them?

However, I think there might be some issues. The biggest concern is of course less Div1 rounds, but as Mike already said, he promised it will not happen (since different people work on those). For longer queue issue — I think there should be some rating lower bound for Div2 if Div4 will continue. 30,000 people on one round, rating 0 to 2100 is too much for problemsetters to think about. Generally I think problemsetting will be easier if setters know their 'targets' more accurately.

Also, 1400-bound is kinda problematic that 'new users' are not rated in lowest-division contests. Currently codeforces is too big to keep this policy — I guess most of new participant's skill level is lower than 1500, but they have to be frustrated in div2 or div3 to compete in their correct positions.

For all these problems, isn't base rating 1500 a bit too high? I know that it is difficult (or maybe impossible) to change this, but if I remember correct 1500 is somewhere near median. Is this intended? I haven't done the math, but I'm almost certain that high base rating is giving vastly more rating inflation.

Again, I haven't competed a lot like other people who already made their good point. My opinions might be wrong...It will be great if some good, reasonable discussion leads to improving this great community.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

    A lot of new accounts turn out to be high-rated participants creating new accounts just to score well in lower divs and ruin the fun for actually lower rated contestants.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Oh. This is actually what I missed... Seems like a fair point. Fighting against multiple account using is much bigger issue in some sense.

      But it is still sad that there is a obvious concern (Rating inflation, high base rating being unwanted barrier to new users) which cannot be solved because of bigger issue. Hope Mike and CF team, and our community find a clever way to deal with these.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Sum of rating changes after a round is approximately 0 => whatever you set as the starting rating is going to be the average of all ratings

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Yes but I was talking about people making new account -> do one or two contest -> lose a lot of rating and throw that account away. Wouldn't this cause rating inflation?

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        3 weeks ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        It's true but it isn't really related to div.4 round. I can't see a relationship between div.4 round and rating inflation caused by new codeforces user as it is more related to quarantine.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

the best news i got during this quarentine

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

When I was still wondering the missing Div1 and Div2, I saw the astonishing Div.4:)

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +23 Vote: I do not like it

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3 weeks ago, # |
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some good news in this quarantine. Thanks Mike

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3 weeks ago, # |
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tourist should participate. Upvote if you wanna see his finishing time :D

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Will new unrated accounts be treated as trusted participants since the initial rating start from 1500 ?

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3 weeks ago, # |
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great!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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  • What about the rating changes? If it is the same as of div2/3 then it will be so easy for people to get ratings instead of doing hard work and attaining it.

  • My honest opinion is instead of making these rounds rated why not make the rounds like AtCoder DP contest? For sure it will be helpful for greens like me.

Thanks for your efforts.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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This will be great...Hope to solve atleast 3 problem:)

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3 weeks ago, # |
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[cf.png]

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    But you can't participate. So you can jump. but I say to wait for div2/3.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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....On the one hand, the number of gray and green participants in total exceeds the number of other participants. On the other hand in typical....

Really, how many hands does Mike have?

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

I have done 4 rounds so far:

  • First Round: Could not solve even a single question, wrong submissions on two questions, rating fell by 129 points, Editorial was too hard to understand.
  • Second Round: Solved 1 question correctly, 1 wrongly and rating further went down 17 points.
  • Third Round: Solved 3 questions correctly, 1 wrong submission, but took almost whole 2 hours, so rating went down 7 points.
  • Fourth Round: Solved 4 questions correctly. I thought this was finally when my rating stops from dropping, but no! Rating dropped further by 16 points.

And now my poor self is sitting at 1331 points. Div-4 is exactly the kind of motivation I am looking for in I my life. Finally something that doesn't make me want to commit sudoku. Thank you Mike for this competition.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Why not FIRST solve a lot of problems in practice BEFORE entering any competition?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    First,you should try to solve easy problems FAST and PRECISELY.

    A wrong submission increase problem penalty by 10 min/reduce the problem value by 50 points.

    You are ranked with penalty if you have same problem solved with others in div.3, 1-minute penalty lowers your rank by 100~300.

    The same with div.2, so you must solve problems fast and precisely.

    BTW, you must focus on your ranking instead of problem solved

    If you can solve easy problems fast and precisely, then you can try to solve hard problems.

    If you can solve 4 problems in div.3 / 2 problems in div.2, you'll be specialist.

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +41 Vote: I do not like it

I think Div4 is unneeded because:

1) It will just make managing and tracking of rounds difficult.

2) This will decrease the standard of Codeforces. Many prefer Codeforces because it provides unique and challenging problems. I think Codeforces should better invest its time on maintaining standard it had set. I don't want Codeforces to become Leetcode. Current divisions are enough.

Instead, just add a lower bound rating to div2 and increase frequencies of div3.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    It is actually a very good motivation for people like me who find it really hard to solve any question from Div-3 or Div-2 at all. This is for the people who are struggling to get a start. Div-1 is still here for those who want challenging problems, no issues there.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    [accidentally posted]

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    You can't compare leetcode and CF, different type of problems, different goals (competitive programming vs job interview preparation). For example, there are lots of math in CF and very little on LC because on a real job interview no one cares about math (except some specific companies). Even programming languages are very different (Python, Java and some C++ vs C++ dominating on CF).

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Now I started to feel locked down for real!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I don't get the points why too many arguments against the division-4 . If It's too easy for you then make a race to finish all the problems in the shortest time and enjoy the contest or skip that.

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +46 Vote: I do not like it

Was it really necessary to provide ratings for printing "Hello World"?

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

Enough complaining already, if you are with higher rating, you should see this as a nice way to train your speed and accuracy on easier problems.

Or just don't participate and train on the Gyms with harder problems. :)

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    You won't be able train on GYM when there's a long queue from system testing

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I don't know if you have considered this, but adding extra contests will be bad for training, when I want to do virtual contest/gym I have to chose a time when there is no other round running, as this will affect my contest.

On the other hand I think these contests would help me learn new languages, as a start I want to improve my python skills and learn JavaScript.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Yes, indeed. I try to look on the bright side of things.

    I can remember people complaining about introducing Div 3, but then many of them were taking part on contests.

    So, lets not complain that much — I'm sure everyone can find something valuable in such contests, more or less. :)

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3 weeks ago, # |
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When it says "do not have a point of 1600 or higher in the rating" should it really be 1400?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    I think there's no relationship between official participants(<1400) and trusted participants(<1600)

    I'm a bit confused, though

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Making more divisions with more easy problems is not the solution.

I see a lot of comments from low-rated users (I'm a low-rated user, I know) cheering Div 4 competitions because they think that FINALLY they will be able to practice. That's not true, there are a lot of Div2 A and Div2 B problems from which a complete begginer will get some benefit.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Can't agree more.But I think there'll be more problems for them to practice in div.4 .

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3 weeks ago, # |
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3 weeks ago, # |
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You are right I cannot solve more than 2 problems in div 2 rounds :'(

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I think the existing three divisions will work well if the lower-bound of the rating of rated participants for div.2 is increased. Then, lower-rated participants will focus on div.3. Making a div.3 contest slightly easier will balance everything.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Div 3+2 rounds would've been a better idea

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -9 Vote: I do not like it

You can Decrease the difficulty the Div.3. It shouldn't the proper step to Open a DIV.4 for the problem. You can Increase the Div.2 lower bound. Here are a sample(lower bounds): Div.1: 2100 Div.2: 1401 Div.3: 1400 or below(upper bound).

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3 weeks ago, # |
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well, reaching expert and specialist is easy if div 4 continues. Personally i feel div 3 is enough for a beginner to learn! That grey part in my graph taught me never to give up, but just learn learn and learn!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Good one..

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I think in div1 and div2 contest..this day their are another contest o div 3 for rating less than 1400...these might remove the problems of participants

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Happy to see DIVISION 4. Now I can get some fair and level competitors. Thank You Mike for your efforts

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Despite my sadness, I wish everyone good luck in this round :)

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Instead of introducing so many new division, introduce a new type of contest which will have variable upper limit of rating for participation. Limit will be fixed by writer and co-ordinators before contests. If problems are easy then it will be rated for contestants having rating less than 1400 or less than 1200 if problems are very easy.

Limit will be 1600 if questions are comparatively difficult and so on.

So many divisions really sounds very strange.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Isn't this basically more divisions? I do not get the difference between making 10 new divisions and your idea. I mean, the only thing I get is that divisions will be un-named when your idea is implemented. Is that your intention or am I missing some important points?

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      I don't think contest like div4 will be very common. I believe this is arranged to check the server capabilities. As setting easier problem is easy (according to mike) so if something like this again happen in future then a rounding for testing will be necessary again. Situation may demand variable participants and variable rating limit.
      For such case introducing new division again and again is not a good idea for me. Instead of this say div3 or div4(as already introduced) will have necessary limit according to situations.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I really happy ... Thank you mike for your support newbie and pupil practicipants ❤️

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    really a nice idea and great chance for beginner like me

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Is it rated for new id who didn't participate in any contest before or recently created id?

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    no you must take part in at least two rated rounds (and solve at least one problem in each of them)

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3 weeks ago, # |
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Div.4 = Atcoder Beginner contest

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3 weeks ago, # |
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3 weeks ago, # |
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This is such a good initiative for beginners like me. Thanks a lot, Mike!

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3 weeks ago, # |
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i think its a great step to catch more people to CP community. because the beginner need something like this to motivate them to train..

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I think any round with less difficulty than div3 would be more of a spoon feeding..although pupils and newbies are only able to solve 1 or 2 problems in div2 but they learn new concepts ans things from them..even if a pupil would solve all problems of div4 Its of no use if its not challenging and he doesnt learn anything...

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3 weeks ago, # |
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To be honest, the original intention of creating div4 is good, which means Codeforces can attract more people to participate in CP. But at the same time, the inflation of rating will give professional players a painful blow. The scene of div3 is stil close to us. Hope Mike can think it carefully.

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3 weeks ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +104 Vote: I do not like it

So sad that participants with rating < 1500 are banned from participating in virtual contests or solving problems from the archive with thousands of simple problems.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    Is that right? My present score is 1250, and I have just resigtered for virtual participation in Round 638 Div 2 without any ban.

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    3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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    You can use the same argument to stop condudcting div1 rounds.

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      3 weeks ago, # ^ |
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      Yep, but I won't get ez upvotes for a reasonable comment :( Obviously, Div4 rounds are just another entry point in CP for beginners. I don't know if we need one and it's not for me to decide.

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3 weeks ago, # |
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I have no doubt in my mind that it will help a lot to the begginers and will be very popular even after the quarantine period

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3 weeks ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -8