Please subscribe to the official Codeforces channel in Telegram via the link https://t.me/codeforces_official. ×

MikeMirzayanov's blog

By MikeMirzayanov, history, 4 years ago, In English

Hello Codeforces!

Initially, here was an announcement of the first round for the fourth division. But currently, in comments there is the huge discussion of division 4 rounds in general. Honestly, I read all (almost all) comments.

I decided to replace the text of this post to match the comments better. Also, I'll write one more post separately to discuss problems. And this post will be about division 4 rounds in general.

About Div4 rounds:

  • I'm not afraid of a queue or servers overload: it is technical challenges and my task is to resolve them. The previous biggest rounds were not overshadowed by technical problems and judging delays, they went well. I see no reasons why something should work much worse in the rounds for Div. 4 (and if it does, then this should be fixed).

  • I don't think that Div. 3 rounds are too dificult. Actually, they are quite good for beginners. They are noticeably easier than Div. 2. Almost every round trusted participants solve all problems, many participants solve all without one problem. I think in general they are OK.

  • Now I don't like the idea to run in parallel Div. 3 and Div. 4 rounds (like we do for Div. 1 and Div. 2). Div. 3 rounds are harder to prepare and I don't think we can host them more than once per ~2 weeks. It means that such rounds will not give new contests for newcomers and grays/greens (I think Div. 3 are already interesting rounds for them to take part). But separate Div. 4 rounds will be easier to prepare (even than Div. 3) and probably making them we can offer more contests for low rated participants.

  • I'd like to repeat: Div. 3 and Div. 4 rounds doesn't affect the rate of Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. The coordinators focus only on Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. All Div3 (and future, if any, Div4) rounds are prepared without any help from the coordinators.

  • I do not think that by hosting Div. 4 rounds, we will lower the quality of problems. Now, I don't plan to use absolutely A+B level problems even for the Div. 4. I think problems of level like Div3A-Div3D are good candidates.

Thanks for your attention to this idea!

  • Vote: I like it
  • +1391
  • Vote: I do not like it

| Write comment?
»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

EXCITED!

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +481 Vote: I do not like it

I hope that frequency of Div 1/2 rounds are not affected by them.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +34 Vote: I do not like it

    Now I started to feel locked down for real!

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -31 Vote: I do not like it

      I like the rated rounds only. Div 2 is the best rounds.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -84 Vote: I do not like it

      Do we have any thing which reduces our rating below 1400 before 9th may. So that we will be rated.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Hopefully not affected. See this

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1249 Vote: I do not like it

At this rate we'll have div10 for negatively rated people.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +39 Vote: I do not like it

    I'll try to be the first participant

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      there are already 13 negatively rated people.

      the minimun rating is -41.\Joking

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Gratitude!

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +75 Vote: I do not like it

    Regardless of whether you are a trusted participant of the ten's division or not, if your rating is less than 0, then the round will be rated for you. Lol

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -27 Vote: I do not like it

      To qualify as a trusted participants of the tenth division, you must:

      • take part in at least two rated rounds (and submit at least once in each of them)

      • do not have a point of 50 or higher in the rating after your rating is lower than 0

      • Your rating is less than 0

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +37 Vote: I do not like it

    Solving div10 questions should be interesting. Looking forward to it!

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

      (I guess) the questions will have similar difficulty to the following sample question:

      A. Output an integer
      
      Input: There will be no input
      
      Output: Output any integer you like (it will be accepted as long as it is an integer.)

      (This feels like April Fools' more than a rated div 10 lol)

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 months ago, # ^ |
        Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +4 Vote: I do not like it

        B. Date

        Input: no input

        Output: the date of first div10 round in DDMMYYYY format.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +4 Vote: I do not like it

    Codeforces Round 1000(Div.10) Total:20000 Participants:10 Out of Competition:19990

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

    Wow is this the highest upvoted comment of all time

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

Thus I have gotten demoted once again! Anyways thanks for the effort!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +9 Vote: I do not like it

:OOOOO

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +76 Vote: I do not like it

When is the old Round 640 planned to be held?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +57 Vote: I do not like it

    300iq and writers will announce it soon.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +4 Vote: I do not like it

      will the contest be rated for unrated accounts?

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
        Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -37 Vote: I do not like it

        It is written clearly that to qualify as a participant of the 4th round, you must have taken part in at least 2 rated contest! So for unrated accounts, it won't be rated.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          those specifications are only to qualify as a trusted participant. anyone who rating less than 1400 the round is rated for them, but regarding whether unrated contestants will be rated or not is not clearly mentioned uptil now.

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

            Yes, I just saw the list of participants registered for Div 4. Unrated accounts ratings are written as 0 and they are "in the competition". So it is rated for unrated accounts. Sorry for my misinterpretation.

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

            don't bother your rating is not less than 1400 spacetime

            • »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              4 years ago, # ^ |
                Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

              I just got a little curious and hence asked about it :)

              • »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                4 years ago, # ^ |
                  Vote: I like it -56 Vote: I do not like it

                are you planning to make new accounts? disgusting...You should be banned from codeforces..spacetime

                • »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  4 years ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it

                  not at all, just got curious thats all! Don't misinterpret :)

                • »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  4 years ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -112 Vote: I do not like it

                  I know you are gonna do this.. Since you are a pro at coding you will do all problems with the new account and thus you will screw the contest for green and grey coders...I will mail mike to ban you from CF

                • »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  4 years ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

                  a kind request, please dont't misinterpret and don't spread hate :)

                • »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  »
                  4 years ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it -61 Vote: I do not like it

                  ok....dekar

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      I hope the round will still be at the same time of the day. It's been a long time since the last contest held at unusual time for other time zones.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +168 Vote: I do not like it

I wonder if CF caught corona.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -75 Vote: I do not like it

Not excited

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +377 Vote: I do not like it

It's not april 1st anymore

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +35 Vote: I do not like it

I hope I can solve 3 or 4 issues in div4, div2 is too hard for me

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

    Why not all? It will be not too hard) I wish you luck!)

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      I am not confident in my abilities, but I will try, thank you

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

        But you know you are a stable pupil so this should be easy for you and you've got this!! :)

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        12 months ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

        and look at yourself now bro,how do you feel? :)

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +165 Vote: I do not like it

Is this a joke? The site was already suffering due to cancerous div 3's and the rating inflation that they were causing and now div 4's. No words to say. I guess mike only cares about traffic on the site now.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +34 Vote: I do not like it

    Well it's just an experiment and maybe it will be good for beginners. We were all there at some point.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +56 Vote: I do not like it

      I think div 3 's are much more than enough for upsolving for beginners. Div 4 will just cause more rating inflation and all we will have are undeserved experts who reached that rank only by competing against other pupils and newbies.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

        You may be right but I think that inflation you're talking about will lead them to a [1400-1600] range not more so 1600+ rated members won't notice any difference

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
          Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

          Cyans are touching CM after div3's. So i expect pupils to reach 1600-1700 easily by being in top 50(not hard)

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

            Yeah you're right. But in those cases these cyan people are solving maybe all the problem set in-contest which is something I personally wasn't able to do yet even in Div3. It's maybe odd but I think they deserve it if they really did that

            • »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              4 years ago, # ^ |
                Vote: I like it -34 Vote: I do not like it

              Suppose it was a div2 contest than a div3 with the exact same problems. Do you think all of them would be able to reach that rank. I dont think so. BECAUSE THERE IS REAL AND TOUGH COMPETITION THEN!

              • »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                4 years ago, # ^ |
                  Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

                Please think carefully. People with up to 2400 rating doing div3 rounds regularly fail to FC a div3 problemset. And most of the people gaining high rating from div3 rounds are previously unrated participants (here's a little hint: if they can beat a gm, they're probably a gm). So yeah, my guess is that they can probably reach that rank...

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

            You are absolutely right but there is a possibility that they might struggle in the future competitions. So it won't matter much I guess.

            • »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              »
              4 years ago, # ^ |
              Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

              And that brings me to my next point. Many people leave after reaching a certain rank. Hence more people around that rating since they fear that their rating will fall.

              • »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                »
                4 years ago, # ^ |
                  Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

                The rating in codeforces is simply not relative. If after reaching a certain rank, people leave, it is their loss and that really cant be accounted for inflation then because an inactive account is not really the same as an active account. However, if someone was able to maintain their rating, they probably deserved it.

                The plus side, really is that it would account for further testing and will be a good platform for beginners.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +46 Vote: I do not like it

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +65 Vote: I do not like it

      Div3 was an experiment as well.
      But nobody ever bothered to show what were the outcomes of that experiment before starting a new one.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +4 Vote: I do not like it

        Oh the outcomes were great although it does not affect you and me right now, but for beginners which are the bigger part of this community yeah it was great.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +39 Vote: I do not like it

    Vicious Coder with vicious words! It's a good opportunity for beginners who have more to care about than their score

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

      Rightly said. He is too bothered about other people reaching expert instead of increasing his own rating.

      He couldn't see a positive side of such contest which brings more people to this world. It gives motivation to many people to try harder.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +86 Vote: I do not like it

        I think it's time to address the elephant in the room. If you aren't >= cyan after a month or two, you just aren't practicing hard. The people in div 4 range are either completely new or unmotivated, both of which won't be inspired to try harder by such a round. I was motivated most by wanting to be in div 1, not by having low level rounds. I think the round is fine now as it's basically another testing round, but not a good thing for the future, and div 3 is the lowest level it should go.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

          Competitive programming is an entertainment and possibly a sport, not a job. I, at the moment, participate in most rounds, and spend time practicing between rounds, but if someone just wants to do the occasional round for fun, and to test their skills, that is fine with me whatever level they are at.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

          What you said would be true in most cases. But as a programmer, we should know that there might be few corner cases. Some people might be trying hard but in wrong direction like practicing easy problem a lot. This division might give them confident that they can do easy problems and it's time to practice some hard problem. As Mike said, the number of other rounds won't be affected by this. So, I don't understand how it is harming anyone. Being optimistic, may be in future these divisions will lay a perfect and well defined path for becoming a good programmer.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +41 Vote: I do not like it

      2 years back, there were just 2 divisions. But did beginners then have no opportunity to practice then? Not at all. People practiced harder problems and improved themselves. If you think solving a round just filled with Div2-A's will help then i am sorry to inform you that it will not be helpful in the long run.

      Yes i used harsh words but the sole reason of that is because i feel codeforces is losing its essence now and that triggers me.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

    I think the real purpose of CodeForces is to make us better at algorithmic thinking and prepare for ICPC / ACM. Sure, knowing a "rating" is nice. At the end of the day, the real purpose of practicing CP is "Can I solve XYZ challenging problem I haven't seen before?"

    As a community, we should look at the rating system as an arbitrary benchmark someone decided to implement and don't question it too much. Instead, we should look at improving ourselves and our abilities.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      1) How does a Div 4 help for ICPC?

      2) There needs to be some motivation for everything in life. Rating is a motivation to do CP and there no denying that. This is analogous to being a youtube creator. Sure he likes to create and edit videos but the real motivation comes from the views and likes on the video.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

        1) For more experienced people, it probably doesn't. So we should ignore it and stick to our Div 1 / 2. For newbs, it probably gives them a glimpse into solving problems on a clock and some of the more basic ideas.

        2) In some (e)sports, they use tournaments or races to determine relative standings. At the end of each CF contest, we can also look at how we ranked relative to the other contestants. This will be a noisy signal (much like rating), but over time it should give you a sense of progress.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    How exactly do Div 4 contests cause rating inflation? The sum of participants ratings is the same after and before. The main thing that causes rating inflation is more users. But that's a good thing, because it means a higher rating means you're better than more users.

    Rating inflation is such a stupid thing to worry about anyways. And if you look at the some of the top people on the website who have done this for many years, their rating has been pretty stable for the past few years anyways.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    I know a lot a lot of participants who always participate and solve 0, 1, or two problems maximum and its fair enough to have there own contest also its really helpful for the newcomers to have a contest where they can see there improving after practicing

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Agree. OR Div4 and Div3 should have better rating calculation formula.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -122 Vote: I do not like it

Div 4 .. lets see something new rules.

Hope I it will be fun for official participates.good luck for all.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

So can you not participate in this round if you are an unrated account?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 4   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    You can, and your rating will change.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Seems Yes !!! I am new (unrated) here and it doesn't show me as out of competition after registering.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +74 Vote: I do not like it

Yay DIV 4! Its time for me to Shine

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 4   Vote: I like it +83 Vote: I do not like it

Waiting for div10 round with a rating less than 100.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

Now, Its time to contribute to Problem setting.

Too many things are happening. :)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

Welcome to new era of codeforces. Division 4.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

THX Mike. I hope that the situation with difficulties of Div. 3 rounds' tasks won't repeat in Div. 4.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +707 Vote: I do not like it

Reducing the difficulty of Div.3 instead seems like a much better option than a whole new division that just excludes specialists.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

    Agree.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

    Yes very true there's no point in just excluding specialists and make another division . This means if contestants keep on increasing more and more divisions will be made .We should not forget many contestants have multiple accounts .

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

    +1000

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +164 Vote: I do not like it

    Consider we reduce the difficulty of Div1. And the hardest problem is solved by ~100 participants. Is it good? We have the same with Div3. Now almost each round we have trusted participants who solved all the problems, tens or hundreds solve without 1 problem. Typically, all problems gradually increase in complexity. What is the reason to change it? Why do you want to remove interesting and useful problems from some official participants? This will lead to the fact that the top is determined solely by speed. What for?

    My point of view that green and cyan participants have some gap in skills. Usually, you need fewer efforts/less time to prepare easier problems (at least for me). I expect that the preparation of Div4 is easy if you are a skilled writer. I believe that it will only be better if we have rounds for both very beginners and the rest of the audience. Why not? I don't have any plans to reduce the rate of Div 1-3 rounds. Actually, now I don't have plans for regular Div4. I think we need to look at the feedback, results and popularity.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +185 Vote: I do not like it

      You can add one more trivial problem in div3 or make it div3+4 if you want to avoid having 7-8 problems.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +164 Vote: I do not like it

      But the goal of Div. 3 is to allow people to advance to higher divisions. So there's no reason to compare that to top contestants in Div. 1. If a person solves all the problems in Div. 3 then they should solve problems in Div. 2. I don't see why it is an argument for adding the new division.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      in a way this only affects specialist users badly, i can't see why it shouldn't be a rated contest (or simply div 3 like everyone is saying) for specialists.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +24 Vote: I do not like it

      The overall feedback will obviously be positive because of the amount of greys and greens in the site and since a div4 is basically a win-win situation for them.

      I personally don't have a problem with div4 if the frequency of div1-3 doesn't change but I think the frequency of div1-3 will eventually go down if div4s become a regular thing.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      Hi Mike,

      I think you are absolutely correct, these changes should be data driven than based on some mere comments... Also I believe that its easier to come up with a div4 round, which can be used to make lower rated participants learn important tricks and techniques to become better coders.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +15 Vote: I do not like it

I wish It is div 3 with less difficulty . Div 3 with less difficulty == Div 4

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -57 Vote: I do not like it

BTW I would like to see Div. 10 lmao tasks for people with negative rating

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -35 Vote: I do not like it

    Why does any stupid comment of Div. 1 have +100500 rating, but specialists get too much minuses? Such of strange effects, d'you think so?

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

      It's because there were already two comments with the same idea as yours, posted earlier than yours.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it -63 Vote: I do not like it

        I don't read the previous comments. Is it base to blame me?

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +35 Vote: I do not like it

          Well do you expect people to upvote you then?

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it -39 Vote: I do not like it

            No, I've just wanted to write a comment. In this case you might ignore it. Such an easy way to be honest.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -24 Vote: I do not like it

    It's funny to see people that put minuses on comment of random low-rate like a hamsters. Be kind :)

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

    Ok, it was a very strange first experience of interaction with Codeforces' community...

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +73 Vote: I do not like it

A little typo:

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

This is sad. Disappointed.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +37 Vote: I do not like it

Why not keep a Div 3 contest instead of making a new division and keeping a Div 4 contest?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

It's exactly what starters needed (at least i did)! Really hope everything would work fine! Make Codeforces great again!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +62 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +29 Vote: I do not like it

What is the point of making Div4? I think that Div3 problems are simple enough.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

    .

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +67 Vote: I do not like it

      I think D, E and F should be difficult. I'm Div. 1 and I almost never solve D, E, F in Div. 1 rounds :D

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Just go to any standings page and you would see a lot of greens have solved Div3 D, even some solved div3 E. What you have to know is you can solve div3 E because a lot of guys in your rating range solves that. So, it's the luck, sometimes it would favor you and sometimes not.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

      Yeah, but what's the point in solving more if the reason is them being easy instead of us improving.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    not for everyone, some people who are new to programming needs div 4. I support cf in this Disceason if they donot reduce frequency of div 2 contests

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +62 Vote: I do not like it

Codeforces: good job getting high rating of 2100+! As a reward, rated rounds for you are like once every half a year now!

Just kidding, but for real, I hope div2+ rounds don't start taking 90% of the schedule now with more round types.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +104 Vote: I do not like it

    We never reduced the rate of Div1 and Div2 rounds because different people work on them (I'm the only common point). Since 2010 we try to have ~3 Div1/Div2 and ~3 Div2 rounds per month (sometimes we have 4+2 rounds, but it even better usually).

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +83 Vote: I do not like it

I hope this will be the first and last div4 contest.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it

Regardless of whether you are a trusted participant of the THIRD division or not, if your rating is less than 1400, then the round will be rated for you. I am sorry, but I think here is a mistake, and there must be fourth division, not third. UPD: Fixed

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +89 Vote: I do not like it

I want to be absolutely, completely sure that everything works as it should before the start of a Div.1 / Div.2 round. So I decided to do such an experiment

  1. Ok, this is an experiment. So are users with rating above 1400 encouraged to participate out of competition to stress test the queue?

  2. Is this only an experiment to test the queue? If so, cool, I think this is a great idea. Since it's rated, participation will be high.

Otherwise, I don't think Div.4 contests should become a thing. It's better to keep focus on the already existing divisions, instead of adding a new one and wasting time creating and testing trivial problems. Besides, I think Div.3 is good enough for beginners. At least the first three tasks are doable with little experience in programming. With Div4 we might as well copy problems from geeksforgeeks.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +26 Vote: I do not like it

    I don't think having a Div4 would take time away from the individuals writing other division contests. See Mike's comment here.

    I also think there would be plenty of individuals to choose from to write these contests, like myself. I've prepared contests for my university countless times, where problems ranged from easier than Div3A to around the difficulty of a Div3D.

    Everyone who competed in the competitions I wrote were brand new to competitive programming, and most gave very positive feedback on how they felt like they learned something new. Of course, I directed them to Codeforces so that they can continue to learn, but none of them really picked it up. Why? I'm not too sure, but having an easier division might be more inviting.

    Either way, lets see the results from this experiment. If this Div4 contest pulls in new users or pulls back old users, that would be amazing for the Codeforces community. I'm interested to see what kind of data Mike is able to gather.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
      Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      You do have a point, people in my school also don't keep up with CF. And talent in competitive programming involves a huge range, which could be further partitioned into more divisions. And yes, maybe new users come in with Div.4.

      But I also think most of those people who "don't pick up CF" aren't too interested in competitive programming. At least the ones I know participate once or twice because they want to try something new, or they want to prepare for a tech interview, etc. Yes, some of them could have serious potential at CP, but I have to say, they're a minority.

      I think codeforces is for people interested in reaching a serious level in programming competitions. So I think they "don't pick up CF" because they're not really interested enough to be persistent, disciplined, and do an effort in solving CF problems. If they want to prepare for interviews or learn basic stuff, they can go to leetcode or hackerrank, which are specifically designed for that kind of people. Codeforces should remain a platform for people that do competitive programming simply because they love it.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I agree, but does lowering the barrier for discovering a new love for CP on CF have any negative affect? Genuine question, haven't really thought about it much.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

          I don't think it has a negative effect. People with real interest in CP will eventually pick it up. There might be some exceptions, but I bet you if CF brings in more users like the ones I'm talking about, the following things will increase dramatically:

          • Posts such as: "I AM GETTING WA PLEASE HELP", "HOW TO GET RED", "HELP WITH INTERVIEW QUESTION".
          • Comments such as "I hope I get green today", "I hate the problem set", "Good luck everyone", "Tourist is like Darth Vader".
          • Users with no respect to the community, posting cancer, insulting people, and spamming without caring of getting downvoted.
          • Difficulty of finding good, advanced, interesting posts/comments between the trash ones.
          • More contestants desperate for attention (a.k.a cheaters).

          I think these things are more worrying than letting grays solve more than one problem a contest.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

What's the rating bounds of Div2 and Div1 now? Does it remain the same?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +22 Vote: I do not like it

Is it just another test round?

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

Definitely not a good move.

Instead,the difficulty of Div3 should have been adjusted.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

Can users under 1399 participate in div2 after adding div4?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

Will the round be rated for me as I am an untrusted member?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

    everyone knows this is a fake account, i hate people like you, you registered 7 weeks ago and solved only 1 problem. Also one of your past comments suggest that you have already participated in div2 rounds. Even if this is your real account, how the hell you came to senses after 3 hours of the anouncement of div4 rounds. Why can't you participate with your real i.d?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

Division 4, only where new users are unrated!!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

nice

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Wondering what would be the maximum rating of the problems in Div 4

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

Almost all problems (or even all) will contain multiple test cases — this will prevent the occurrence of a queue, simplify the preparation of tests.

I'd actually do the exact opposite to stress-test the system, if I understood the sentence correctly.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

    This is done to decrease the load, not to stress test the system.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

      But since the motivations for this post was to make sure everything works fine before we have another Div1/Div2 round, is it not better to actually stress test the system?

      To see if the fixes worked correctly?

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I think that was an explanation for this scheduling (moving div1+2 round and having a div4 now), not for the whole existence of div4.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +51 Vote: I do not like it

Why not just make div3 easier?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

WTH!!?? just like ABC contests at Atcoder. i cant even imagine the round easier than div3 "/

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

MikeMirzayanov Will the unrated users also be rated ?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    They will be rated. My friend new on codeforces just registered and is not registered out of competition.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

i have been waiting for a long time sir :">

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

It will be "Testing Round", but with 5-8 problems)

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

I am very excited as a begginer programmer, I don't get why people is so mad over this, and also you all are getting mad over Mike, but what he does, is just thinking for all. If there will be any future Div 4, how does that affect you Div 3 / 2 / 1 participants, he said that there will be no less Div 3 / 2 / 1 rounds. You should really reconsider your way of thinking over Div 4.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +94 Vote: I do not like it

If this Div 4 project works, can we add a lower bound or threshold rating for Div 2 participation like in Div 1 ? I think this alone would resolve long queue issues due to congested servers. MikeMirzayanov

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +15 Vote: I do not like it

    Usually long queues only happen if there're something wrong with the jugding system.

    Low-rated people can hardly solve Div.2 C. (Mostly) Div.2 A and B are light problems.They don't take up much judging resources.So they don't affect much.

    So I don't think it's necessary to set threshold for Div.2 .

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

      I'm not sure but I think queues are not problem-independent so Heavy traffic on A might also affect submissions on other problem.

      Maybe I'm wrong though if you have more information please share it

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Problem A can be solved in ~5 min for high-rated participants, and for low-rated, it takes up about 15~30 min.(Div.2 A isn't very easy for them) Then, they won't collide with each other,which reduces the instant load of the servers.

        What's more, usually there's only 2~3 pretests for Div.2 A , so judging will be faster.

        So the queue will not get crowded (Though if you put A+B with 100 pretests at Div.2 A, judging system will blow up)

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          I wouldn't estimate the time it takes for a beginner to solve a problem you see it can take him between 10 and 100 minutes. The mere fact of having like 10k extra submissions per contest being transferred somewhere else would be good for serious participants

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            Most of these submissions distribute evenly in the 120-min contest, so they don't affect too much.

            I don't think situation will change very much if we block these submissions.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          And high-rated participants would solve ABC in 15-30 minutes.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

      About 6-8k people solve Div 2 A-B, but not Div 2 C, lots of them are cyan or grey or unrated(lets say 6k extra submissions for A and 4k for B), its just too many even if the problems are light.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

        Usually the number of Participants solved the problem(described as solved below) increases fast at the beginning of the contest, then slowly at the middle/ending.

        Participants with high rating will solve A and B in 5~10 min , so solved increases fast.The Low-rated solve them in 30~120 min, evenly distributed, so solved increase slowly.

        Although 6~8K submissions seem a lot, actually they are not too many because most of them distributed evenly in the 120-minute contest.

        That's my opinion.

        • »
          »
          »
          »
          »
          4 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

          It would be one submission every second in the best case, its still too much. Just end it here.

          • »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            »
            4 years ago, # ^ |
            Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            Alright.Maybe we can discuss it after the first Div.4 contest :D

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +26 Vote: I do not like it

    I don't think Div 4 contests would become frequent, but having lower bound for Div 2 is a great solution(i also came up with the same idea then i saw you comment)

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it +28 Vote: I do not like it

Future ~~~~~ LGM : DIV1 GM : DIV2. MASTER : DIV3 CM : DIV4 EXPERT : DIV5 SPECIALIST : DIV6 PUPIL : DIV7 NEWBIE : DIV8 -ve RATING : DIV9 ~~~~

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

congratulation to all trusted participant

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -30 Vote: I do not like it

Exactly what I needed to get started, I'm a complete noo00b lol

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

    codeforces starting rate is 1500. The round is rated for 1399 or less. You won't be rated.

    Edit: I think it will be rated(Not sure though). There are not a lot of details though(A bit confusing).

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +173 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Please clarify if it will be rated for unrated users

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I hope after everything is sorted out have we have frequent contests! Best thing during this time

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -30 Vote: I do not like it

40ih5v.jpg

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +9 Vote: I do not like it

uh, I guess its speed-forces round.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

"In typical div.2 rounds, gray and green participants rarely can solve more than 2 problems", it hurt me deep though it may true.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    i am also hurted though i can solve 3 or 4 problem rarely

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Greens like us have to be above rank 5200 to increase rating (lot of contestants in Corona time).We get close to solve C, but can't make it in contest time. Hope in future we'll improve and solve upto C regularly.

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Or you should solve problems A and B very quickly and try to hack people if you can.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Like seriously, have you seen any standings page. In every div2 round, at least 50 people in your rating range does better than me. How they do that? They got the luck and you don't. You would get luck also. But, you can solve div2 D, that didn't kicked on your head during contest time.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

I know its not a good place to ask it but i don't know where to ask, how to become a tester, specially for this special round?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +75 Vote: I do not like it

A meme became reality...

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

Very excited!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

How about running div3 and div4 together like div1 and div2 happens...

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +54 Vote: I do not like it

div5 rounds when?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +31 Vote: I do not like it

I see a lot of people commenting why div4 is a bad idea. In some way I agree to those ideas, but to share my opinion — why is this so bad afterall?

People have already complained why div3 is a bad idea, and yet I think it had some good effects for beginners who just started solving these problems.

I don't know if beginners feel current div3 challenging, but unlike Atcoder Beginner Contests, I think 1200-rated people will feel third or even second problem in Div3 challenging. For motivation and improvements, why shouldn't codeforces offer rounds for them?

However, I think there might be some issues. The biggest concern is of course less Div1 rounds, but as Mike already said, he promised it will not happen (since different people work on those). For longer queue issue — I think there should be some rating lower bound for Div2 if Div4 will continue. 30,000 people on one round, rating 0 to 2100 is too much for problemsetters to think about. Generally I think problemsetting will be easier if setters know their 'targets' more accurately.

Also, 1400-bound is kinda problematic that 'new users' are not rated in lowest-division contests. Currently codeforces is too big to keep this policy — I guess most of new participant's skill level is lower than 1500, but they have to be frustrated in div2 or div3 to compete in their correct positions.

For all these problems, isn't base rating 1500 a bit too high? I know that it is difficult (or maybe impossible) to change this, but if I remember correct 1500 is somewhere near median. Is this intended? I haven't done the math, but I'm almost certain that high base rating is giving vastly more rating inflation.

Again, I haven't competed a lot like other people who already made their good point. My opinions might be wrong...It will be great if some good, reasonable discussion leads to improving this great community.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

    A lot of new accounts turn out to be high-rated participants creating new accounts just to score well in lower divs and ruin the fun for actually lower rated contestants.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Oh. This is actually what I missed... Seems like a fair point. Fighting against multiple account using is much bigger issue in some sense.

      But it is still sad that there is a obvious concern (Rating inflation, high base rating being unwanted barrier to new users) which cannot be solved because of bigger issue. Hope Mike and CF team, and our community find a clever way to deal with these.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Sum of rating changes after a round is approximately 0 => whatever you set as the starting rating is going to be the average of all ratings

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Yes but I was talking about people making new account -> do one or two contest -> lose a lot of rating and throw that account away. Wouldn't this cause rating inflation?

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        It's true but it isn't really related to div.4 round. I can't see a relationship between div.4 round and rating inflation caused by new codeforces user as it is more related to quarantine.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

When I was still wondering the missing Div1 and Div2, I saw the astonishing Div.4:)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +23 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

some good news in this quarantine. Thanks Mike

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +54 Vote: I do not like it

tourist should participate. Upvote if you wanna see his finishing time :D

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Will new unrated accounts be treated as trusted participants since the initial rating start from 1500 ?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

This will be great...Hope to solve atleast 3 problem:)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +19 Vote: I do not like it

[cf.png]

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

    But you can't participate. So you can jump. but I say to wait for div2/3.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

....On the one hand, the number of gray and green participants in total exceeds the number of other participants. On the other hand in typical....

Really, how many hands does Mike have?

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

I have done 4 rounds so far:

  • First Round: Could not solve even a single question, wrong submissions on two questions, rating fell by 129 points, Editorial was too hard to understand.
  • Second Round: Solved 1 question correctly, 1 wrongly and rating further went down 17 points.
  • Third Round: Solved 3 questions correctly, 1 wrong submission, but took almost whole 2 hours, so rating went down 7 points.
  • Fourth Round: Solved 4 questions correctly. I thought this was finally when my rating stops from dropping, but no! Rating dropped further by 16 points.

And now my poor self is sitting at 1331 points. Div-4 is exactly the kind of motivation I am looking for in I my life. Finally something that doesn't make me want to commit sudoku. Thank you Mike for this competition.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Why not FIRST solve a lot of problems in practice BEFORE entering any competition?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    First,you should try to solve easy problems FAST and PRECISELY.

    A wrong submission increase problem penalty by 10 min/reduce the problem value by 50 points.

    You are ranked with penalty if you have same problem solved with others in div.3, 1-minute penalty lowers your rank by 100~300.

    The same with div.2, so you must solve problems fast and precisely.

    BTW, you must focus on your ranking instead of problem solved

    If you can solve easy problems fast and precisely, then you can try to solve hard problems.

    If you can solve 4 problems in div.3 / 2 problems in div.2, you'll be specialist.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +41 Vote: I do not like it

I think Div4 is unneeded because:

1) It will just make managing and tracking of rounds difficult.

2) This will decrease the standard of Codeforces. Many prefer Codeforces because it provides unique and challenging problems. I think Codeforces should better invest its time on maintaining standard it had set. I don't want Codeforces to become Leetcode. Current divisions are enough.

Instead, just add a lower bound rating to div2 and increase frequencies of div3.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    [accidentally posted]

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

    You can't compare leetcode and CF, different type of problems, different goals (competitive programming vs job interview preparation). For example, there are lots of math in CF and very little on LC because on a real job interview no one cares about math (except some specific companies). Even programming languages are very different (Python, Java and some C++ vs C++ dominating on CF).

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

Now I started to feel locked down for real!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I don't get the points why too many arguments against the division-4 . If It's too easy for you then make a race to finish all the problems in the shortest time and enjoy the contest or skip that.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +46 Vote: I do not like it

Was it really necessary to provide ratings for printing "Hello World"?

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

Enough complaining already, if you are with higher rating, you should see this as a nice way to train your speed and accuracy on easier problems.

Or just don't participate and train on the Gyms with harder problems. :)

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    You won't be able train on GYM when there's a long queue from system testing

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

I don't know if you have considered this, but adding extra contests will be bad for training, when I want to do virtual contest/gym I have to chose a time when there is no other round running, as this will affect my contest.

On the other hand I think these contests would help me learn new languages, as a start I want to improve my python skills and learn JavaScript.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Yes, indeed. I try to look on the bright side of things.

    I can remember people complaining about introducing Div 3, but then many of them were taking part on contests.

    So, lets not complain that much — I'm sure everyone can find something valuable in such contests, more or less. :)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

When it says "do not have a point of 1600 or higher in the rating" should it really be 1400?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

    I think there's no relationship between official participants(<1400) and trusted participants(<1600)

    I'm a bit confused, though

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

Making more divisions with more easy problems is not the solution.

I see a lot of comments from low-rated users (I'm a low-rated user, I know) cheering Div 4 competitions because they think that FINALLY they will be able to practice. That's not true, there are a lot of Div2 A and Div2 B problems from which a complete begginer will get some benefit.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Can't agree more.But I think there'll be more problems for them to practice in div.4 .

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +24 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 3   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I think the existing three divisions will work well if the lower-bound of the rating of rated participants for div.2 is increased. Then, lower-rated participants will focus on div.3. Making a div.3 contest slightly easier will balance everything.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

Div 3+2 rounds would've been a better idea

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

well, reaching expert and specialist is easy if div 4 continues. Personally i feel div 3 is enough for a beginner to learn! That grey part in my graph taught me never to give up, but just learn learn and learn!

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

Happy to see DIVISION 4. Now I can get some fair and level competitors. Thank You Mike for your efforts

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +76 Vote: I do not like it

Despite my sadness, I wish everyone good luck in this round :)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Instead of introducing so many new division, introduce a new type of contest which will have variable upper limit of rating for participation. Limit will be fixed by writer and co-ordinators before contests. If problems are easy then it will be rated for contestants having rating less than 1400 or less than 1200 if problems are very easy.

Limit will be 1600 if questions are comparatively difficult and so on.

So many divisions really sounds very strange.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

    Isn't this basically more divisions? I do not get the difference between making 10 new divisions and your idea. I mean, the only thing I get is that divisions will be un-named when your idea is implemented. Is that your intention or am I missing some important points?

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      I don't think contest like div4 will be very common. I believe this is arranged to check the server capabilities. As setting easier problem is easy (according to mike) so if something like this again happen in future then a rounding for testing will be necessary again. Situation may demand variable participants and variable rating limit.
      For such case introducing new division again and again is not a good idea for me. Instead of this say div3 or div4(as already introduced) will have necessary limit according to situations.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

Div.4 = Atcoder Beginner contest

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it
»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

I think any round with less difficulty than div3 would be more of a spoon feeding..although pupils and newbies are only able to solve 1 or 2 problems in div2 but they learn new concepts ans things from them..even if a pupil would solve all problems of div4 Its of no use if its not challenging and he doesnt learn anything...

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

To be honest, the original intention of creating div4 is good, which means Codeforces can attract more people to participate in CP. But at the same time, the inflation of rating will give professional players a painful blow. The scene of div3 is stil close to us. Hope Mike can think it carefully.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +104 Vote: I do not like it

So sad that participants with rating < 1500 are banned from participating in virtual contests or solving problems from the archive with thousands of simple problems.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -26 Vote: I do not like it

    Is that right? My present score is 1250, and I have just resigtered for virtual participation in Round 638 Div 2 without any ban.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

      SARCASM! Ever heard of it?

      • »
        »
        »
        »
        4 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Have you ever heard that incorrect information might be misleading to someone?

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

    You can use the same argument to stop condudcting div1 rounds.

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

      Yep, but I won't get ez upvotes for a reasonable comment :( Obviously, Div4 rounds are just another entry point in CP for beginners. I don't know if we need one and it's not for me to decide.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +11 Vote: I do not like it

Why is there a space between # and 640 in the title?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +38 Vote: I do not like it

I think it is a terrible idea to make a Div4. When Div3 opened, I noticed that the (average) number of participants of a Div2 round is less than in a Div3. People with lower rating accepted that they are not good enough for Div2 and started participating only in Div3 (I don't say everyone did this, but the numbers clearly show that lots of <1600 rated coders did this). Therefore to give a chance to <1600 participants, Div3 contests became more regular, as Div2 and Div1 became more rare. If someone only participates in Div3, they won't come across the harder problems, and will learn way slower. And now this Div4 will make things even worse. The only good thing it does is it makes <1400 participants easier problems, therefore more solved problems, so they will think that they are more successful. But in reality they are just separated from the others, given way easier problems. I suggest all <1600 participants to participate in Div2, try to solve harder problems after the contest (even if it takes few hours or even days!) or at least read the editorials. That's a more efficient way to learn. I know that Div2 is harder and many won't be able to solve more than 2 problems during the contest, but it is much better if you want to learn.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
    Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

    Why do you notice on the dark side only? One person's skill grows step by step. If you look at the dark side,I can say about the bright side. Trying to solve problem is the best way to become a problem solver. But if you try problems which are too hard to you,then it won't come to a help. So at first a person should try very easy problem,then bit difficult,then more difficult. In this way a person can be a good problem solver. However I salute the thinking of division 4

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    So, you are thinking div3 problems are too easy. Please, for you it's easy. For others, it's not. Even, people in purple rank can't solve all the problems. And also, the ratings of the last problem are around 2300-2600(although rating system looks pretty vogus to me). Now, let's come to your point. I went to pupil from newbie with div2, went to specialist with div2, went to expert with div2. And there are plenty other peoples who went to this rating by div2. People with lower ratings participate in div2, people with lower ratings participate in div1 + div2 combined rounds too. It's not that they only stick around div3. And div3 D, E, F are interesting too. div3 E is a problem equivalent to div1 A/B and div3 F is equivalent to div1 C/D. So, they get acquanted with harder problems.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

maybe a should play bad next div 2 round to become green so that i can become expert easier from div 4 xD

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

Would this be feasible? Just a thought. Comment

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -15 Vote: I do not like it

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -14 Vote: I do not like it

maybe it would be a good idea to make div3 more easier. Prob D,E,F of div3 could be more easier.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +33 Vote: I do not like it

Noooooo :(

That's bad idea. There are too many div3 round ALREADY.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

It's a good idea to enhance the morale of beginners. Thanks Mike.

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Solve 50 problems with difficulty "your rating+200" and you won't be begginer any more.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -25 Vote: I do not like it

What about educational rounds? Is there any clear distinction between Div3, Div4 and Educational rounds? Maybe it's time to give a number to Educational rounds too, like Div 2.5 (or Div3, but then make Div3 -> Div4, Div4 -> Div5)?

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +24 Vote: I do not like it

On the one hand, the number of gray and green participants in total exceeds the number of other participants.

I think you include most of the fake accounts, that doesn't participate all time.

»
4 years ago, # |
Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +5 Vote: I do not like it

Mr Mirzayanov: Div 4 rounds will not affect the frequency of Div 1 and 2 rounds.

Also Mr Mirzayanov: Replaces a Div 1 and 2 round with a Div 4 round.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

The contest should be unrated for the newly created accounts(accounts created after the announcement of div. 4).

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

If long queue problem had a difficultly tag, it would be more than 4000,but mike found very good solution, I am very impressed. it's sad that I am under 18 and I couldn't donate money to codeforces...

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +32 Vote: I do not like it

I don't see much benefit to adding a division below div3. If it's intended for people who, based on rating, struggle to solve div2A+B and get destroyed by div2C, then div3 totally works for teaching them something more advanced than simple implementation. The only real benefit is using these as rated testing rounds.

Since such rounds do not imply the presence of strong knowledge and skills, most problems will be on topics: simple mathematics, implementation, greedy, sortings, constructives. I think simple binary search applications, the very easy applications of dynamic programming or graphs can be also used.

This is a good div3 range of topics. Anything harder than one trivial ad-hoc idea already qualifies a problem for potentially div1.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I think problems 1-3 on atcoder could pose as the middle tasks for this division

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -13 Vote: I do not like it

With this concept of Div 4, we can have a lower bound on Div 2(like Div 1) in between 1401-1501. This will definitely help to reduce the load on Div 1/2 contests.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

As some people have mentioned, MikeMirzayanov should create a lower bound for div2 (1400 for example). Otherwise, it remains the same since div4 participants still take part in div2 contest.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

I think this is a good idea for beginners and it will encourage them especially because it will not contain difficult algorithms

good luck :)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

I'll try my best to be quallified to participate in Div4 rounds:)

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

tourist participates in this round to feel the new div4, and solve all problems in 3 minutes.

»
4 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

curious to see the difficulty of div4 A..

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

    See the problem A last night!

  • »
    »
    4 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Print "Hello Div4!!#"

    • »
      »
      »
      4 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

      Why did you post the statement of problem A?! Now the round has to be unrated because of this.

»